Manchester United Message Board
Doesn't it make you sick when scouses keep ranting on about 5 euro cups. Of,course, all credit to them and if we were in the same place I would be as happy as anyone. But here is my thesis as to why Liverpool were successful then.
1 Available players: Top English teams have always had the pick of British players but not the best world players. It just happened that when Liverpool were good some of the best players around were British; the likes of Dalglish, Souness, Hansen and Rush. The best Scotland can offer now is Fletcher. If Dalglish were playing today he'd be playing for Man Utd. If he had been South American he would have been at Madrid or Barca.
2 It was easier then: When Liverpool were successful in the 70s and 80s it was easier to win the European Cup. There wasn't much competition from the rest of Europe and only the league winners qualified. Ajax and Bayern had had their day and Italy and Spain were not so strong. The European cup came to England 7 times in 8 years. Everyone said the hard thing was winning the league. That's why Forest won it twice and even Aston Villa once. I bet the second best team in Europe back then was sencond in Division 1 but of course they couldn't compete in the European Cup. Just look who Liverpool had to play to win:
ROMA (in Rome)
That's 2 tough games to win 4 cups. That was an era before all the big spending AC Milan etc.
Look who we were playing in 1999.
3 Foreign Restrictions: In the early/mid 90s when we had Schmeichel, Kanchelskis, Cantona, Giggs, Hughes, McClair, Irwin, Keane, there was a restriction of 3 foreigners and 2 assimilated players (Brits). This meant that while we were winning the double in England we had to play youth players in Europe. Remember when Barca beat the kids 4-0.
So if we had had the teams of 1993-2003 and Fergie as manager back in 1976-86 we would have won a load of European Cups as well, I'm sure.
Now, when you get to the last 8 they are probably the best 8 teams in Europe. Of course you can fluke your way to a win Porto did in 2004 and as Liverpool showed in 2005 when they scraped their way through the group stages, had the luck of the draw and then played 3 good games:
Grazer (losing away)
Monaco (losing away)
Olympiacos (losing away)
Deportivo La Coruña
i,m no man u fan (god forbid) but it is amusing to see just how arrogant and pathetic you all can be . why do you always think you,ve got the god given right to win everything . fair play to liverpool and any other team who has success.how can you be so jealous given your own success over the years. most real football fans would be in heaven just to see their team play a game in europe never mind winning it. my THESIS is the funniest thing thats happened in football since the war was united getting relegated. lets hope theres a super league soon so that we can give football back to the real fans and you lot can argue with each other about whos won the most cups and we can all enjoy what footballs really about.
Interesting analysis, but the facts are any team has to win in the conditions prevailing in any given era. I don't like getting taunted about Liverpool's 5 European Cups, but I accept and admire the fact they won them. I'm glad United have won 2, and yes I hope we win more and overhaul Liverpool's total eventually. When United won in 1999 I thought we'd never see a CL Final like it again, then Liverpool's incredible comeback in Istanbul came along - you have to give them credit for it. It was a great result for Liverpool and the EPL. As SAF said that famous night in Barcelona "Football - Bloody hell!" One of the great things about our two clubs is the fierce rivalry between us - but that doesn't mean we should disrespect each other's achievements.
I have a friend here in Serbia who is a very big fan of Liv'pool!!!
Honestly he gets on my nerves sometimes with those 5 Cups!!!
Then, I just tell him to look at the Liverpool's present plays!!!
They don't know when they are winning, and when they are losing!!!
I mean, you can never put money on them to win, because it's never sure, even if they are playing against, I don't know, Sheffield Utd.!!!
They don't have as good players as we do, and I'm sure that in five years we will have the same amount of cups won, and we will be able to say that we have won them in a harder championship than they did...
As for 2005, it was a complete surprise for me, because they didn't have the winning team, and neither did Milan!!
It was one of the worst finals, to be honest!!!
But as I said, future will tell that our dear club will become the club with most European Titles won in England!!!
While Liverpool will be left at quota of 5!!!!
And, by the way, when was the last time they've won the Premiership???
I don't recall, do you??
St Etienne were a good side back then, but I don't expect a Manc to know anything about history.
In 1974/75 St Etienne lost to Bayern Munich in the semi-final (Bayern went on to win the European Cup)
In 1975/76 St Etienne lost in the final to Bayern Munich.
In 1976/77 (as you've said) they lost in the quarters to Liverpool (who went on to win the Cup).
Benfica and Bayern were always in the mix during th 70's and 80's, and Monchengladbach won the German title in 1970,1971,1975,1976 and 1977 ahead of Bayern Munich (who you coincidentally seem to be saying were a hard team for ManU but easy for Liverpool even though Bayern were not the same force in the 1990's that they were in the 70's - their golden period was the early 2000's).
Barcelona weren't the team they are now in the 1990's, so you can cross them off your 'hard' ManU games. In the 1997/98 European Cup they finished bottom of their group which boasted the might of Dynamo Kiev, PSV and Newcastle (Barca won 1, drawn 2, lost 3).
In 1994/95 Barca lost to PSG in the quarters, and didn't get to that stage again until 1999/2000 when they lost to Valencia in the semi's.
Inter Milan hardly register on the meter in the 1990's, Juve were getting to the end of their golden period by the late 90's, Bayern were on the rise towards theirs, and you managed to miss Real Madrid who were the real force at that time.
Leverkusen weren't a bad side - granted they had lost some of their top players from the 2001/02 season when they knocked us and you out and lost in the final, but they were a bit like Galatasaray when they knocked you lot out in the 90's. Oh, and Leverkusen topped Real Madrid's group that season (beating them 3-0 at home and drawing 1-1 in Madrid.
Juventus, Chelsea and Milan were 3 of the best (and were each favourites for the cup before we beat them - as were Barca this year. btw - this one's not over yet, and I for one am counting no chickens.)
It's difficult to say whether the new format is easier than the old format. When you played knock-out all the way through, and only got in when you had won your own title there was more pressure, and it was harder to give players experience of European competition because there were no dead games at the end of group stages, or some of the duck-eggs who get in now.
Travelling to far-flung foreign places was not as easy as today, and teams were not as accommodating to away sides especially the further east you went. Facilities were not up to scratch, and for plaers who had little experience of travelling abroad (unlike the jet-setters of today) it would be quite intimidating.
Now, you do tend to get the cream of Europe in the latter stages, but the seeding system is of help to the top sides. ManU may find soon that dropping out of the top group in the seedings will make things a bit more difficult in the group stages.
The fact still remains that 5 European Cups is a great achievement, and to win thm in 3 different decades makes it more of an echievement - only Real Madrid (50's,60's,00's), and Milan (60's,90's,00's) have done the same. Liverpool won all of theirs with dfferent teams of players too whereas often when teams have won a few European Cups they have been with almost the same team as in previous years.
If runners-up from domestic leagues had been in the European Cup during the 70's and 80's we'd probably be on out way to ten by now.
I think the point has almost being made, but for me, not quite. That is you could win the league through consistency ie picking up maximum points against the lower (outside of top 4, like Utd might this season) teams. But how many games do you expect to win against the other top 3 sides, in the league and then again for the European Cup ?
The equivalent is the case now but not before.
No it dont make me sick at all. What make's me sick is you sorry mancs who under estimate the acheviments Liverpool football club have made down through the decades.Ok we've not won the domestic title in a long time but the silverware has never stop flowing. Maybe in the years between1977-1984we never played AC Millan Barca or Byern Munich.So what football was a totally different game back then,matches where won in different ways. And as for only playing two difficult games all i can is BENFICA!!!!! And if we did scrap are way through to win the big one in 2005 well at least we know we done it against the best. How far did u get that season? As for the lille game on tue nite! a hippocritical manc should be keeping his mouth shut about scraping through!!! Think on boy........YNWA
As much as I hate the granny robbing murderers, their win in Barcelona is to be respected.
As for the past .... had we been good enough to win the league then we might have had a crack at winning the European Cups. The sad thing is, we weren't and when we qualified for the UEFA Cup or Cup Winners Cup in the 70's/80's we didn't get close to winning it. The CL is tougher now with more potential winners than before, but Liverpool beat what was put in front of them and you can't dispute that. Yes it annoys me how much their fans harp on about the past, but then so do we about 1999 and 1968, it is natural to do so.
If we'd have won the cup 5 times like them, we'd be ramming it down their throats. Let's hope we make it 3 and they don't make it 6 this season .....
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