• Manchester United Message Board

  • A Yahoo! User Feb 4, 2008 20:31 Flag

    why so much hate???????

    this week sees the 50th anniversary of the munich
    air disaster and while tributes and reminisces will be a plenty there will also be the nasty side. no doubt we will have spammers hide behind a name to mock and rile but we should not lower ourselves to react but pity them as they are pond life. i read this caption on yahoo this morning

    "A transformation took place in the national consciousness as a stunned public learnt by wireless and news flashes on small grainy television sets of the tragedy that had wiped out the cream of a generation, the Busby Babes.

    People who had no interest in football began following the fortunes of United, neutrals willed them to win. The players who survived the crash, such as Bobby Charlton, won a special place in people's hearts and United itself became an icon of hope born of tragedy"

    having read this it made me wonder where all the venom and hatred came from.is it because of our successes, which, no one should envy us as the club could have died on that fateful day but instead they rose above it and became an institution.
    is it because of the fact we have the largest fanbase both here and abroad, well again why the envy, it says in that caption that neutrals started to will united to win, so the popularity was borne out of the tragedy although united had a huge fanbase before it too.
    or is it because of the naivety of fans today, they all think the average united fan is a gloryhunter who lives anywhere but manchester. it was the disaster and subsequent rise from it, that increased our clubs popularity, the will to carry on, just days after it fulfilling an fa cup tie rather than ask for a pardon, the fighting spirit that helped the club bring success out of diversity.
    that is what made manchester united the club they are today.
    which is why i cant understand the hate and vitriol that people have towards a club that, literally, rose from the ashes and created an icon that made the club what it is 50 years on.

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    • Indeed. Not only did the Catholic not condone the IRA - membership was an excommunicable offence. Brendan Behan discusses this in his excellent "Borstal Boy".

    • I think you will find there are as many dirty Church of England Vicars as there are Catholic Priests, and a lot of Irish people would still consider English/British soldiers to be invaders & terrorists in Northern Ireland, and that's not even going into the history of the whole thing.

      And what about the Muslim Imans encouraging Muslim British suicide bombers and spreading hatred towards Jews, Christians and Hindus. Catholic priests never condoned anything like that in Ireland or Britain.

    • Don't call me dude! I am not an American. Now you are winding me up...

      BTW - just who do you support?

    • That's rubbish about hooliganism and I'm sure you know it. Spurs fans were also victims of trouble in Europe last season, where the police in these countries still believe the English football fans in general to be hooligans and treat us as such. They have no idea how to peacefully oversee matches like we do so well in this country, and that's no fault of our support as a whole.

      There were some "fans" who were arrested and charged in europe and who have been rightfully punished, 99.9% of the thousands of supporters were not involved.

      As for the home office records:

      "The club with the most arrests was Manchester United. There were 192 arrests of Manchester United supporters in 2006/07, up from 147 the previous season. Only eight of those arrests, however, were for violent disorder, with 98 for public disorder and 68 for alcohol offenses.

      And, just as they were in the league table, Chelsea were second behind United in arrests, with 135 (up from 126). Chelsea had the most issues with ticket-related offenses, as 25 people were arrested for ticket touting, which accounted for more than half of the total number of ticket touting arrests in the entire Premier League (47 total).

      The biggest riser behind Manchester United was West Ham, whose numbers went up from 69 in 2005/06 to 111 last season, the majority coming from public disorder arrests (57), with only ten arrests for violent disorder."

      8 arrests for violent disorder. Out of about 2 million
      visits to Old Trafford last season, 8 people were arrested for violence. It hadly paints a scene of hoards of violent thugs roaming around Manchester does it? In comparison, West Ham had 10 arrested for violent disorder out of about 800,000 visits to Upton Park.

      Its a small section of every club's support who are into it entirly because they want to start trouble, that's no more a charge to level at United's fans than any other club in the league.

    • So you have resorted to making up ridiculous stories. What were you doing on a train with United supporters? Was this on a match day?
      You are just some bullshitter on the internet, that's all.

    • I was 11 at the time of the Munich crash and while I supported Arsenal and still do to this day, I remember being devastated at the news of the crash. I was not alone; fans of all persuasions were similarly affected.
      And then there was Duncan Edwards who had managed to survive the crash. I had got a football annual at Christmas and in it there was a full page picture of him. I kept it open at that page as if that might help him recover. But it did not, of course, and I cried myself to sleep when he died.
      Why so much hate nowadays? I do ask myself the same question.
      I suppose the anonymity of the message boards encourages posters to post the most outrageous and vitriolic comments, safe in the knowledge that they are unlikley to be called to account. The 'send' button permits no retrospective reflection. The words are immediately there for all to see and before long an equally spiteful post is up there, and on it goes. I suspect that some of the hatred (and not just of United incidentally) is as a result of the gloating of the rival fans.
      It is also a fact that we are a more disjointed society today with less to believe in, and a general lack of consideration for other people. Compared to the amount of violence on the streets hatred expressed through the message boards is small beer. But it is all part of the breakdown of society.
      The last match played before the crash was at Highbury and was won 5-4 by Man Utd. There was no need for segregation of the rival fans. Their love of football united them. They could appreciate talent, even if it was displayed by a player in the other team. There was no fighting after the game; the fans of both teams were delighted to have witnessed such a wonderful match. Both teams were applauded of the pitch.
      Today the average supporter loves his own team and hates their rivals. Loyalty to their club precludes any objective assessment of the wonderful skills brought to the Premier League by the likes of Ronaldo and Fabregas.
      Anyway I'll get off my soapbox. I only came by this website to express my own sadness about Munich.

      • 3 Replies to MICHAEL
      • I my opinion Michael a good post I am not a man Utd fan ,i have only one club Sunderland but i have always admired the club for decades who has not if the truth be told? In my business dealings over the years i have often gone to OT in the old boardroom and have found all staff from the doorman to ex players very friendly towards me and my guests. I was younger than you at the time but as i got older i became sad for everyone connected with MUFC.In those days the players were much closer to the fans i used to walk sometimes with our King Charlie on his way to the ground ,me an scores of us kids.Like you state there was not the hatred that exsists today and thats a pity but tomorrow i do think the country will share the loss that all MUFC supporters feel.

      • Very good post, Michael, very interesting to hear the thoughts of someone who was around to witness the events of that time.

      • Great post Michael - a few lessons for us all to remember.

    • Unfortunately the more 'fans' support a team the higher probability that there will be thugs.
      I do not 'associate' mysel with them anymore than any respectable supporter of any club associates with their hooligan element.
      If your problem is with certain 'supporters' of United rather than the club itself, its a bit disingenuous to 'hate' the team/club. I suspect its easy ( lazy) to say I hate United, because the media continually give you the support/environment to say so.
      You are saying you 'hate' a bunch of hardworking, normal people because you met some thugs who hid behind a 'motif' in order to justify their ciminality. Not very logical put that way is it?

    • There are thugs and wankers who support all football clubs, we've not got a monopoly on them. From this United fan, I wholeheartedly congratulate you on the kicking you gave this sad example of humanity.

    • Thanks Derek, it's a refreshing change to have a good debate on here without it descending into stupid namecalling as is usually the case here these days.

      Like you say, right place, right time - who knows who would be in the position United are in now if our period of success had not coincided with the foundation of the Premier League and the begining of the commercial age of football. There may even have been another team more disliked than us in England...

    • My comment about Keegan's speech was semi-humorous, but based to some extent on what he said, which was that Southerners go to the theatre for their entertainment, whereas Geordies like to go and watch their football after a hard week at work. I half-expected Dvorak's "New World Symphony" to start playing while the patronizing shit was speaking....

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