Manchester United Message Board
There are sick sods everywhere in society. Football attracts its fair share. Big clubs with big support will attract more than the average. Yes its deplorable, as is every incident of its kind that happens at almost every ground in the country.
If you are trying to make out its a 'United' phenonemum , you are sadly mistaken and indeed could be accused of adding to the problem by making such an obviously innaccurate accusation.
- 2 Replies to jim w
I wonder how many of us have phenonemums.
The innacurate accusation is yours: I wasn't doing any such thing. I was merely thinking that those who get upset by references to Munich ought to be even-handed and disown those of their own ranks who misbehave.
I would hope it's not controversial of me to say that the people behind the banner ought to be disowned by United and, if possible, banned from football grounds.
Jim you’re absolutely right, and I do believe the majority of United fans would have nothing to do with what that banner last night represents.
However, when the majority is silent, does it not condone the minority’s actions? I mentioned that banner on an earlier thread as I was suppressed no-one else had (although as a non united supporter did not think it was my place to raise the issue). But other than Devon I don't think anyone responded, and I believe you’re only the 2nd united supporter on this board today to even discuss the issue.
Does the silence therefore speak almost as loudly as the banner itself? Especially when it’s not even a MU supporter who breaks that silence!
Been there done that. But seriously it maybe naive to think people can change, but taking the opposite view that you can never get rid of the most awful taunts seems very defeatist to me. Surely if one less fan was abusive or one more father told his son that's over the line it would be at least marginally better than now? If not, really not sure why you or any man u fans has any right to complain if the idiots from other clubs throw Munich at you. If you not willing to tell your own, you really don't have much standing when complaining about others.
I was there last night, Robert. I also know the lads who had the banner, and even though it is egregiously tasteless I resist tabloid media terms such as "morons". In other words, I wouldn't do it myself, but it will always happen. What I find strange is the automatic association with low IQ and such tasteless humour. Tasteless humour has often been the privilege of intellectuals. Gary Bushell is a wanker, but he is also a member of MENSA!
There is a history of hatred between United and Leeds, that's all there is to it.
- 4 Replies to The Levy
To say there is a history of hatred and so, by implication, let them get on with it is like saying there is a history of hatred between catholics and protestants, jews and arabs, indians and pakistanis. It may be true but that doesn't mean everyone should just turn their backs and let them get on with it. Football hooliganism affects us all.
I don't see why people with high IQ can't be called morons. "moron" is used far more generally than its original American meaning. High IQ and stupidity very frequently go together. One or two of the most stupid people I have known have been retired professors.
The main objection I have to your post is that this cannot be seen just as tasteless humour. It was deliberate pre-meditated provocation. Surely that is something we should all want out of football unless we want to go back to the 70s and 80s.
If you know these morons, and they are morons, then you should tell the police so they can be dealt with.
"that's all there is to it" - yeh, dismiss it like that.
Would you have a different attitude if people had got hurt if Leeds fans had tried to get to the banner? Probably not as you seem to look up to football hooligans.
"Tasteless humour has often been the privilege of intellectuals."
Haha dear me, so what you're saying is that Man U fans insulting Leeds United fans over the stabbings in Istanbul and waving a banner around is classed as comic genius, whilst anyone daring to poke an insult about Munich to rile Man U supporters is seen as a moron?
Yeah, that would be right, one rule for the Man U knobheads and another rule for everyone else!
"I also know the lads who had the banner" They're not 'lads', they're morons, as are the Liverpool, Man City , Chelsea, or any other club's fans who think it's funny to show no respect to people who have died watching, or going to a game they love. Hate ? I don't hate rival club fans. I don't like them, but not hate.It's too extreme.
Why do you keep using this term "morons"? It was a term sociologists used about about football hooligans, until they nicked the Chelsea Headhunters and discovered that they were all City traders and estate agents! One of the most notorious Chelsea Headhunters was Chris Henderson, his father was a Peer of the Realm and he went to Charterhouse public school.
Most of these Manchester lads you are talking about are not "morons" at all. Fucking hell, next you will be calling them "untermensch"!
But don't you think that actions like those at Leeds could lead to violence where innocent bystanders are hurt?
There were plenty of innocents caught up in violence during the 70's & 80's - I was there.
If you'd been to leeds as a united fan i can assure you there's plenty of danger of getting hurt irrespective of whether or not there's an insulting banner. Most hoolies these days only fight with other hoolies, but at leeds they seem to think anyone is fair game. I've seen it
That's a fair enough point Stash but I don't see how the logic works in reference to the point of the thread.
Leeds fans hate Utd fans already so putting up a banner with a sick message is fine?
How about Liverpool & Utd fans hate each other so no problem with the Munich wings or the Hillsborough chants?
I agree 100% with what Ian said up the page. This isn't a club thing.
"I wouldn't grass anybody for criminal activity."
So robbing old ladies is OK by you then.
Muggings, bashings, arson, armed robbery ..... all OK.
Do I take it that if any of that happened to you or your family you wouldn't go to the police because you wouldn't want anyone grassed up?
It's time they got over the bitterness following the sixties and seventies but for folk to comment on it from outside doesn't help lets face it most of us would prefer banners to the cockney fans favorite of having shotguns in the boot of their car at away matches as they did way back when
- 1 Reply to Alan C
When you say "folk to comment on it from outside doesn't help" I'm not sure what you are referring to.
We're all football fans and this stuff has affected us all at some stage or another. Don't see how someone like me (a Liverpool fan) passing comment on a sick banner being raised is not going to help.
Surely what will help less is if people either don't comment on it or condone it based on a "they did this so we can do that" argument?
By pure unhappy coincidence, I discovered this morning that burglars had visited during the night. I spent the whole f***ing day paying people to clean up and fix the breakage. Not only did it ruin my day emotionally, waste the time I could have spent far more profitably (or arguing with you lot, whichever) but the whole thing has left me about two and a half grand down.
Now, you tell me you "regard a midnight as the lowest of all people". I'm guessing midnight is another word for grass. I happen to regard the people who did me last night as a long way towards the lowest of all people. It depresses me, and I think worse of you for it, that you seem to regard my burglars as not as bad as someone who, knowing the culprits, would not turn them in. Apparently, if you knew who they were, you'd keep quiet.
"All that is necessary for evil to triumph is for good men to do nothing."
Count yourself as on the side of evil.
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