Manchester United Message Board
Evra is still a cowardly punk.........
Boo-hoo that bad man called me a nasty name. ( if it's true , which is debatable ).
Have a cry , woman.
You lot are welcome to this pratt. We wouldn't have him. Gutless punk. Run crying to your mum.
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if football is serious about stamping out racism then the authorities need to take serious action against any player found guilty of using such comments about an opponents - and that applies as much to a black player making offenisve comments based on a white player`s colour as it does to a white player being racist towards a black one. The problem is that often such offences take place away from the ears of the officials - and ofen other players - so unless it can be clearly lip read on tv footage is nigh near impossible to prove.
As I said in my earlier comment such claims are almost impossible to prove unless something shows up on video or pitch side mikes. If as some reports claim the comments were reported to the ref during the game it would appear that something did happen but that doesn`t mean it was necessarily Suarez - given the crowd noise it would be easy to assume that because you heard something above that noise it must have come from the person closest to you.
You're right Dev.
By way of an update, I've just seen this on Early Doors from Yahoo ...
"The odds appear stacked against the France international, however. He did not mention the alleged abuse to Marriner during the game, the referee did not hear anything himself, and broadcasters searching through footage of the match could also not find anything to verify the claims."
If correct (I've no idea if it is) then it seems that he didn't report it to the ref during the game which seems odd to me (I mean, why wait until after the game to mention it).
What do you think?
In the absence of evidence, if the question is who is more likely to be lying, I'd say Suarez for the fairly simple reason that I think one player deliberately winding another up and going too far is way more likely than a player making up completely unfounded allegations. Plus, while Evra is not a saint I think he has rather more to lose than to win in doing such a thing and I cannot see a motive for it. Suarez has a history of disciplinary issues on and off the pitch and it may be that his enthusiasm and lack of experience in the English game took him too far.
Why would Evra not mention it during the match? That seems quite plausible to me. Players are trained to ignore provocation and get on with it. I suspect players don't generally go whingeing to the referee when someone says something to them to wind them up. Then maybe after the match he mentioned it to someone - a teammate, coach or whoever and was encouraged not to take it lying down. I don't know, but the fact that he didn't complain to the ref on the pitch doesn't make a lot of difference to me.
Finally, if I was Suarez and I was innocent, I wouldn't be "upset" at the allegations - I'd be f***ing livid.
Seems that Uruguayans are just as, if not slightly more racist than the Spanish:-
2009 Country Reports on Human Rights Practices - Uruguay
The country's Afro-Uruguayan minority continued to face societal discrimination. A National Bureau of Statistics study stated that Afro-Uruguayans comprised 9 percent of the population and indigenous descendents constituted another 3 percent. A July study concluded that 43 percent of Afro-Uruguayans were poor, with 5 percent living in extreme poverty. The study concluded that race is one of the factors responsible for socioeconomic inequality in the country. The NGO Mundo Afro stated that the percentage of Afro-Uruguayans working as unskilled laborers was much larger than for members of other groups in society, despite equivalent levels of education. Afro-Uruguayans were underrepresented throughout government and academia and in the middle and upper echelons of private-sector firms.
He also spent five years in the Dutch league, where deep seated racism has been an issue for many years.
Did he racially abuse Evra? I'm going to guess that it will never be known publicly what Suarez is accused of saying, or if it's true.
Fair enough Robert, when looking at it from all sides with hopefully an objective mindset can see how some may think Suarez more likely the guilty party as Evra may have more to lose.
However not sure your full argument holds up to scrutiny. Suarez has had his issues in the past, but I believe they've all be on the pitch not off it, so lets be careful when we paint a player with a reputation that we're accurate. Also I think he's been fairly honest in his transgressions. He freely admits the handball in the world cup and said he'd do it again. He also owned up to the biting incident in Holland, so he does not seem to be a sneaky sort when misbehaving.
I do buy into the argument that most players will drown out words from opponents to ensure they don't get wound up. However it seems clear that Evra was wound up, so why not say something to the ref. It did seem he complained plenty about something to the ref, just not the "N" bomb. That seems curious to me.
But lastly while only the two players know for sure, it just seems strange if you don't want to make a big deal about it, why go to the press. Seems to me people go to the press either when the normal channels won't listen (seems he never tried) or often the press are quite willing to print your side of the story without much or any proof, while the proper authorities normally like make judgments based on facts before making official statements.
As for Suarez needing to be livid if he has been falsely accused, for all I know he is. But it seems the response has been measured as he has let the club deal with this for him, rather than going straight to the press himself, which seems to me the correct response.
Yes, Evra going to the press and saying he's not going to make a big deal out of it is as stupid as celebrities who live off the press complaining about press intrusion. However, that's just crass PR and doesn't weigh anything on the decision of who is more likely lying. To me, at least.
You say that Suarez is an honest bad boy. Is he? I've not seen that much of him (world cup plus some Liverpool games) but even before Saturday I'd noticed he tends to go to ground fairly easily and make a big song and dance about wanting free kicks and penalties for things. Of course, he's not alone in doing that. More generally, as a striker his game is about pushing at the edges, trying to get a break by encouraging a mistake, taking risks, doing the dangerous thing. To me it fits with what I have seen of him that he would try to needle a defender into making mistakes. I suspect he simply went too far.
You may not think using the press to air your grievance rather then the authorities is not such a big deal, but I wonder if you think that across the board. How much credence would you give someone accusing someone else of a crime, if they reported it first to the press rather than the police? If it were a whistle blower who felt going to the authorities might be counter productive fair enough but are you suggesting that Evra has some good reason to think the ref, the FA, his own club would not take him seriously so the best place to air this was on French TV?
I'm also not suggesting Suarez is some sort of saint. Actually I doubt any footballer is, anyone that competitive is always going to look for an edge. However because someone has approached a line or even gone over it in an effort to gain an edge in the past is a long ways off crossing that line by a mile which is what we are talking about if certain racially motivated slurs were thrown out there. You may think calling someone by the "N" word (which I think is what most assume he's accused of) is going just a bit to far, but personally I think that its a lot further than that, especially at a club which publically is very clear it does not accept such behavior from anyone in the ground before each and every home match. But my point is when he's been caught trying to bend the rules in the past he's put his hand up and said fair cop, while this time he's said he'd being falsely accused.
Lastly you did not address the salient point of Evra not telling the ref during the game. As I clearly stated this is not a question of a player blocking things out as Evra did talk with the ref, and was visibly wound up, so much in fact he talked himself into the book. So the question is, if he was complaining, why did he neglect to mention to the ref or any other official the thing, after the fact, he said was what upset him the most?
Dave, in fact I have answered your point about Evra not talking to the ref during the game several times now, including in the post I made two up this thread (four up including yours).
You may be right that a more decorous way of doing things is to go to the ref during the match, or to the ref after the match or make an official complaint quietly through whatever channels exist rather than blurting it out in an interview. I don't regard Evra as bright as a button and I don't defend him on every point, as those who've been around this board for a while will know. Nevertheless, the fact that he first mentioned it in an interview (if he did) doesn't mean to me that it is made up. More likely he hadn't intended to mention it at all and it just came out, or he hadn't given it enough thought either way, or it was on his mind and he was cross and so it came out. I don't know, but it still reduces back to which is more likely: one player insults another or a player makes up unfounded allegations of insults.
As for Suarez, you say "when he's been caught trying to bend the rules in the past he's put his hand up and said fair cop". I don't think you can be too confident of that. Just last week he was reported as saying in an interview "I'm not a diver". It's my distinct impression that he does go down very softly and appeals very loudly if he thinks he can win a free kick or penalty by doing so. As I've said, he's not alone in that. I think he does try to get away with things. And if he has overstepped the line here, well, he would deny it, wouldn't he.
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