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  • Fabongrass Fabongrass Sep 16, 2010 05:31 Flag

    Were you watching Tottingham?

    What a feast for the footballing eyes MY lads put on tonight eh?

    Chamakh signing of the season?

    'If Carlsberg played CL games.....'


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    • Hated every minute, Fab. I thought Arsenal were negative and incompetent, and very lucky not to have lost that one. Braga were brilliant, and I felt they were robbed. The referee was definitely a homer and I thought Braga had three nailed on penaties. 8-0 to Braga would not have been flattering. Fabregas should have been sent off twice. On the bright side, Walcott had one of his more constructive games.

    • Arsenal will always be shit. Their name reflects that they are the stain on the underpants of football

      • 1 Reply to Roger Mellie
      • Fab, I have always not been ashamed to say how some of Ar$e's football is a pleasure to watch and last nigfht was no exception. As usual, sometimes a little overdone in some cases but when it came off it was great.

        Braga were poor defensively but that does not take away the fact that they were outplayed.

        Only one disagreement though - I thought Arshavin was rubbish most of the first half and not much better thoughout the game. He hit several very bad passes and gave the ball away more than any other Ar$e player. Yes he scored but so he should from there. There was one classic shot of Whingers face just after Ashavin had hit his 3rd bad pass in a row. Don't get me wrong, I think he is a great player but he is off form for what ever reason.

        Well done last night and our upcoming derby should be interesting!

    • Can't say I didn't enjoy it Fab. Gunners played some really good stuff, thoroughly deserved victory! Do you think the opposition were much?
      Amazingly, according to your thinking, with out Walnutt in the team. He probably would have spoilt it for you.

    • ...analogy...
      You put two people in a ring, one with a big stick and one with a twig and they have to battle it out over 13 rounds - and each round they last, they get points towards a bigger stick for next time.
      Now, you may get that the poor sod with the small stick, puts up an amazing fight and manages to stay in until round 9. He then uses his points trying to buy a bigger stick - but hey, the bloke with the bigger stick in the first place has now got even more points, so he can also afford a bigger stick - so he forces up the price of good quality sticks until only he can afford them. So the bloke with the twig is really no better off - as all he can buy with with the additional points he got, was a lesser, inferior stick anyway (but even the price for that is inflated, as all the people selling sticks know you have lots of points to spend). And, the people who lay down the rules for who fights who, arrange the fights, so it's always the blokes with the big stick who fight the blokes with the twigs. And then when two blokes with similar sized sticks actually fight each other, they don't want to hit each other for fear of losing and not progressing and ending up with a smaller stick next time round.

      Much like the Allies fighting Iraq, or the Lions fighting the Christians or the Crusaders fighting the Cathars or Arnie fighting anyone in his movies - all staged managed to make sure that they can't lose.

      If you can hum the Internationale while reading the above, it really does add to the effect.

    • Sfer,
      No - football wasn't always about money - obviously there have always been professional and amateur leagues - and by their very nature, the clubs who paid their players, had to earn money themselves, so were businesses - but look back Sfer, they weren't run as businesses - they were run by people who loved football for people who loved football - the were called blah FC, blah Albion FC NOT blah PLC (a group of people running a business for the benefit of the shareholders) - FC football CLUB (a group of people with a common interest run for the benefit of those people) it was about the football, not the money. Do you think that is a case of 'rose coloured specs'? I don't - just look at how clubs 'market' kits - change kits twice a year - anything to get more money - who does that benefit? I don't think Spurs change their home and away shirt through my entire youth.

      But look back before the 'media' took a hold. Players played for normal money and the competitions didn't have such high financial rewards. Because of that, it wasn't life-or-death when a team went up or down a division - it was joy or despair for the supporters more than a financial catastrophe. The 'fear' wasn't there. That 'fear' of failing has pervaded the whole game, from the top clubs down - because the effect of the money at the top (see another thread about this) has meant that the top clubs buy outside of the English league - to attract 'fancy' names (Van der Vaart or Higginbottom - I' think Van der Vaart has more pull don't you? - even though in Dutch it may mean 'In front of the cart' (ie workhorse ;-)).

      As for:
      Money will always rule John no matter what. That does not mean it makes football or the CL any less worth watching IMO. Would I like to see Brighton play Barca in the final of the CL? Hell yes. Would it be a good game to watch - Hell no.

      It doesn't make it any more or any less. That's entirely my point. Just because you stick a bloke with a polo 'bat' on an 'orse on a shirt, does it make that shirt better than one that costs a tenth? The only way to judge is to compare the build quality and the materials used. You can't use price. The 'logo' is the hype - the Emperor's Clothes. CL is the hype of football. Its the same thing. Look through the hype to what the hype is about.

      Ditto for football, just because the most expensive players are playing, it doesn't make it a 'better' game. The only way to judge would be to watch and see if you're **entertained** - now that may be a 0-0 draw or a 9-1 win - but the whole point of *watching* football is the entertainment. So following on from that how many of the CL games have you watched that have been utter crap (even though they have the alleged 'best' teams playing) compared to how many gems? You can't use money to say how good a game is. That is the 'lie' that SKY (and other advertisers) would have you believe - the money, the glamour, the glitz - football doesn't become more entertaining just because the players cost more or get paid more or because they let fire works off before the game.

      Bloody hell, time for a tea.....

    • Sfer,
      It's not that it's a waste of time, but it isn't a league. So the 'winner' isn't the 'Champion' of europe. IF (see how I did that with a BIG IF?), all the qualifying teams played in a single league and they all played each other - then I would agree that the team that won that league was the most consistent (and therefore 'best'). But that isn't the case.
      It's akin to saying whoever wins the FA cup is the best team in the FA - no. It's a cup competition, so it all depends on luck.
      That's why to me, winning the League is a far more prestigious and indicative achievement than winning the CL. To win the league year upon year, means that you are consistently bettering 19 other teams.
      It is a rigged competition, that is not quite a league and not a cup. And if the end result is a team that wins, but isn't necessarily the best, then what is the point if it's not just money?

      And just to bleat on - the biggest p*** off from my point of view, is that it directly affects the EPL - as the teams that qualify for it and manage to stay in it, get millions more than any other club in the EPL. AND what is even worse, is that once you're deemed a 'big club' in the CL, you get seeded to ensure you stay in the competition - which ensures you get even more money. So it becomes a self fulfilling prophecy - hence the big stick analogy.

      I know you see money as being what it's all about (that sounds wrong) - what I mean is that you see it's 'evil' but accept it. I just find that bit hard. I'd like to see FIFA explore avenues like creating league 'formula' - the car racing people introduced it, to ensure that racing was at least conducted by comparative cars.
      I'll stick that on a separate thread.

    • Sfer,
      I'm not sure that they're that tinted (unless it's vino tinto) - don't you recall Testimonial games? A player staying at one club - because he actually loved playing for them? What? Unheard of.

      Just look at what the 'fear' and money factor is doing to the game. In my day the line up was 2-3-5 (remember that, when you had LB, RB, LM,CH,RM, OL,IL,CF,IR,OR - and could tell players positions by their numbers?) - now it has slowly shrunk back to 4-4-2, 4-5-1. The ethos of the game I love has changed dramatically - even though the rules have stayed relatively static. The ethos is no longer 'come on, lets go and win this', but 'let's not lose this'. This is borne out of the money.

      So to me, I want Spurs to play well. I honestly have never cared (tooooo much) if we lost, as long as they played well. So I don't care if we're playing Barca or Macclesfield, in the CL or CC. Give me a good game of football, that both teams are trying to win, and I'm happy. I'm happy when we play well and do well in the league, as well as I am in any game we play - if the CL is the end result fine, if not fine. But I'm not going to wet myself just to watch two alleged CL super teams play out a boring game of dross. That is where it differs, I think the current supporter wants the glamour more - wants the CL for the glitz of saying '...I saw Messi...' (and then omitting to say on the night he was crap) - it's all about the hype and not the substance. The same as the shirt analogy - all those people wearing designer stuff - just so they can say 'hey, look at me'. The CL is the designer logo of football.

      I think we agree on most bits - my concern (I think) is that the CL/money and the by-product of that, foreign players - will eventually burst the bubble - and then all those supporters on the terraces, will look through the smoke of the burnt out fireworks and realise they were bored to tears.
      SKY will not care at that point, as they will create Super Sunday out of whatever other product they can peddle to the masses. Maybe darts (now there's a sport) or snooker will resurface like the Loch Ness monster....180!

    • I give in. You are all over the place. You are the Queen of contradictions and the chance of you EVER taking in anybody else's point of view is miniscule (that means small) so go ahead and knock yourself out SB. Must be nice living in your sort of World.

    • Blimey John...I have never read so much about sticks and twigs in all my life!!

      Money will always rule John no matter what. That does not mean it makes football or the CL any less worth watching IMO. Would I like to see Brighton play Barca in the final of the CL? Hell yes. Would it be a good game to watch - Hell no.

      See what I mean - you can't have it both ways. Ocasionally you get a smaller team which through either getting a Sheik owner or having a very good manager and backers, will break though (like we did into the top 4) and that is the way it always has been and always will be. Yes the deivide was smaller before the billions that have been pumped into football over recent years but the practice was the same.

      Football is and always has been a business. Its just that the swing has moved so much away from the people that actually love/care for the game (us, Bill Nicholson, Shankly etc etc) towards people who want to become rich or richer. Can't get away from it and it does not stop us watching games. Yes of course its a shame and I wish it had not happened but there we are.

      Will I be watching Chelsea V Barca in the CL final - yes absolutely right I will. Unless of course one of those smaller teams that no one fancies sneaks through and if that is the case I will be praying they win.

    • why do you think it is a step in the right direction?

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