Tottenham Hotspur Message Board
IF you agree that Crouch seems to be our favoured striker option how would you rate him against other strikers in other PL teams?
Bear in mind that Crouch has got 1 PL goal so far compared to
V Persie 6 and Chamakh 7
Drogba 9 and Kalou 6
Gyan7 and Wellbeck 6
Davies 7 and Elmander 9
Torres (apparently having a bad season) 9
Harewood 5 and DJ Campbell 6
Fortune 1 and Odemwingie 8
jerome 3 and Zigic 2
Ebanks Blake 4 and Fletcher 4 and Doyle 2
Piquionne 6 and Cole 3
Makes really horrible reading doesn't it. Especially when you look at second choice or wide players that have chipped in with a few goals when needed. Ok it means we are very lucky to have VDV and Bale but it also shows me that Crouch is struggling and I for one don't think he is the man to get us the goals we need so why are we not making more headway getting a real top class striker in? Before you say it John I know it is not all necessarily about goals and assists need to be accounted for but the players that have scored goals for other teams have assists too. Even Piquionne playing for the bottom club has 6 FFS! Heskey has 3!!!!
I agree that strikers are there to score, not just to assist. A pair of strikers that assist each other is ideal and this is where I would disagree slightly, as I would say that VdV playing behind, has been a second striker. So Crouch acting as provider is what you would expect.
Even if you look back though, our strikers have never been in the 20+ (EPL) goals a season class. In 2007, with Keane and Berbatov, we only got 40 (Berba 15, Keane 15, bent 6 and Daffy 4) - so again that's pretty poor as a strike rate. (2006 was 12, 11,10 for Berba, Keane, daffy).
The problem is that our goals this season, where spread more across the team before, seem to be focussed into two or three non strikers OR strikers who aren't playing. That again is ok, as long as those players keep scoring (ie Bale goes onto score another 10) . I am concerned that the only striker (apart from VdV) who appears to be scoring is Pav - but he hardly plays.
I would prefer that our midfield (excl VdV) scored 25 between them, about 10 from the backs and 30-40 then from our strikers. I felt that is what 'arry was after - so we didn't rely too much on any one or two strikers and goals were coming from across the team. That seems to have dried up a bit and we haven't been creating loads of chances for a while - that's the bit I can't fathom - Bale has been flying, lennon has been getting better and Modric has been dominating - but we create few chances. How come?
- 3 Replies to Jlock
John if you ever answer that question in the last paragraph, phone the F.A. and tell them you need to be fast tracked! Then remember you're Spurs!
We have some of the most exciting player in the EPL imo, sadly we have some of the most boring strikers, the problem could be, they are all fairly predictable, sadly I think they may have been found out. Defoe (when on form) seems to be the only one with any dynamism, but maybe I'm biased?
I hope I'm wrong, beacuse wanting to completely replace your strike force when your club is only just outside the top 4 feels very negative, but I would do it tommorrow!
i cant quite put my finger on it either john.
the utd game is a good example.
i felt we pretty much dominated the game & it was 2pts dropped.
BUT when i watched the highlightes we never tested VDS, in fact rooney tested gomes more than our whole team.
i think we need 4 strikers to compete through out a season.
which is why im pretty keen on crouch to stay as 1 of those 4 strikers as he can add something about diff & help create a goal.
i would want crouch to be 3rd choice in the pecking order.
unless we get someone else with height like carroll then we should keep crouch.
he is a good team player afterall.
but your right, u dont want him as 1 of your main strikers.
as u know im a defoe fan as he gives the defenders more work & at least he is making runs & getting in the box. his all round play as improved too.
he still hasnt had a run of 5 or 6 consecutive games yet so give him time.
keane just isnt up to it anymore.
& pav isnt bad but again i dont think he will ever be a consistant player even if he was made 1st choice striker all season.
the odd moment of goodness followed by being lightweight & non exsistant on the pitch.
at least crouch & defoe add something if they arent scoring.
pav adds nothing im afraid.
i think suarez would be the man for us. 23 & wants to come to the premiership.
also sell pav if we get any bids over 10m.
John i think your point is valid, also i would agree with an earlier poster who said it does not matter who scores as long as we score, fact is Modric is a class act theres no denying but personally i think he could chip in with 10 goals a season as should Lennon and if VDV and Bale score as they have done it would take the pressure off a little, but strikers are paid to score goals and we are not providing that service to the team.
The first half of last season we had both crouch and defoe playing together and scoring a lot of goals. We all know Defoe is a half season wonder.
This season they have hardly played together due to VDV coming in, which seems to have affected the balance of the team. He is a great player but with him playing we seem to be a 1 dimensional team. Not sure what the fix is perhaps HR should leave VDV out for a few games and go back to playing two forwards up front.
- 1 Reply to CalgaryResident
Wash your mouth out Calgary! Drop vdV??? Why, you'll be saying we should drop Bale next ... what's that, you already did?
Tongue out of cheek now, I kind of see what you're saying but dropping a creative midfielder for no other reason than our strikers aren't scoring seems rather short-sighted to me if he's also scoring goals. I feel that with vdV and Modric driving the engine they offer more than just punting the ball up to Crouch as we did last season, especially with Bale and Lennon on the wings.
I would say the assists he does are as good as him scoring the goals himself.
And thats exactly why Rednap starts him.
Where the goals come from doesn't matter one tiny bit as long as they come from somewhere, and if you have a team working together well enough to get those goals (even if its all from your goalkeeper) it doesnt matter as long as they are there.
- 1 Reply to Nick
Yes, but those goals have us in 5th place (just) whereas a striker adding his half-way total of say 10 goals would almost certainly see us sitting more comfortably in the top four.
We need another striker or to get our existing strikers striking.
Easy said, but that's the nub of it.
i think its not fair to say our strikers arent good enough. pav , defoe and crouch are top strikers, maybe not world class but top in any case. keane is all about his confidence and form and right now he has none of both. yes we can improve and buy better but to say they arent good enough is a little harsh. i think we need to sign a new guy some one who will improvew the squad to replace keane but i do think not having a orthodox 2 upfront has effected the players we have style. crouch has set up vdv a dozen times and takes defenders withhim to give bale space so i think he has done his fair share for us and it would have been nice if he had a few more goals but hes doen the job asked. defoe and pav yes not playing well and i agree need to do better , but to say they arent good enough i think is too much.
Obviously its all about personal opinion beni. Personally I don't rate crouch very much at all. I like Defoe but he is off form. Pav is great sometimes and useless others and Keane, well it doesn't matter if I like him or not cos Arry doesn't and thats what counts.
If we are seriously bidding to be in the top 4 consistently we need better.
Manure - Berbatov & Rooney
Citeh - Tezez and the new guy for 27 Mill
Ar$e - van Persie
Pool - Torres
I would swap Crouch for any one of those in a heartbeat. i.e. in my opinion they are not good enough.
A horrible looking list! John has made great points about assists and yes crouchie has contributed in that way, but there is no doubt we are desparate for a decent striker!
I like Pav/Defoe/Crouch, but they all seem to be in terrible form and are quite limited in what they offer. I'd say Defoe is my preffered option as I think he is more of a pain for defenders to play against, but he's not be right since his return to fitness.
I hate to repeat myself(and others) but we need a striker! we also need a LB but thats another thread.
The fact is that we are where we are in the PL because our MF's (and I am including VDV in there) have scored their fair share whilst our strikers have not. We arguably have the worst strike rate from our forwards in the PL.
Had they chipped in we would certainly have been esatblished in the top 4 now.
We can argue or have theories about why this is all day long but it will come back to them not scoring. I don't accept the argument that we have not been making chances - look where WHU are and Piquionne has 6. Don't tell me they have made more opportunities that us.
Yes we have a formation and where to play VDV issue but chances are chances no matter who is on the park. Our current strike force is just not good enough IMO and we need to find someone that not only is capable of getting his fair share but who fits into the line up that we now have i.e. VDV playing off the lone striker with two wide men..
On the one hand Sfer, the stats tell the story, our strikers are not clicking, but I think you also touched on the root cause of the problem and that's the formation change. There's no way Harry's going to mess with something that's working (albeit, the Crouch VDV partnership has slowed down recently and Bale's back has been revealed as being a problem for a little while now, hence not so many fiery runs down the left lately). You probably hit the nail on the head when you say that we need to bring in a striker that complements where VDV is playing (does that mean one who will lay balls off to VDV to strike? how would that striker get his own goals? Just asking...sounds like what we have now. I haven't looked it up but assists from the mid-field have to be quite low given that our forwards aren't scoring; that brings up another question is VDV really midfield?)
Good giref more questions than answers.
Our strikers not good enough? Not good enough for the current foramtion (which incidentally wasn't in play last season when we finished 4th and got into the CL), other than that, I'd say they're plenty good enough. I can't even argue against Pavy as he gets his goal when he gets a chance to play (but off the bench like I mentioned in another thread).
Ramble ramble ramble...I'm done!