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  • RAMBR0 RAMBR0 May 3, 2011 04:52 Flag

    So What went Wrong...and when?

    Ive read posts about loaned out strikers missing sitters that might have helped us but we shouldn't be in the situation where we've got to rely on others to help our cause.

    We can start by looking here:

    We've scored 11 goals against the bottom 6 (6 of those against Wolves). We've have managed just 9 points out of 30 against the bottom 6 (Blackburn the only ones we've beaten twice). So we dropped 21 points to them

    Blackpool and Birmingham are the only 2 that we haven't played twice. (the 30 points mentioned doesn't include the 6 still up for grabs against these two teams).

    So, scoring goals in general and specifically against teams at the wrong end of the table, and getting the winning results expected, just hasn't happened for us this season.

    I mean we slaughtered Wigan last season...this season we didn't score one against them...not one goal...and only one point! Same with West Ham, who we've owned in recent years (and I bet some of their supporters would take that owning if it meant staying up...just like I'd turn in that win against the gooners for 21 points we dropped against the bottom clubs (a genrous 18 points for 3 [laughs] we'd be top of the league with 74 points!!...don't quote my math on that).

    Did our players go all Billy Big boots after beating Inter and then dumping AC Milan out of the CL? Did we think we merely had to show up at league matches, and the three points were ours? They need to go back and take a look at those matches (including the loss to Inter in the group stages) and see what level of effort everyone put in. maybe its not sustainable with the group we have.

    The positive to take away from this season is with all the misfiring of out strikers, no one can say chances were not created. And believe it or not, the fact that we have a positive goal difference while scoring so few says our defense isn't as bad as some make it out to be (Gomes has had his gaffs, but he's made many more brilliant game changeing/saving saves; its just that with the keeper, and error is usually costly.

    The emergence of Gareth Bale and Sandro...two young guns that can go on to great things for Spurs if we can hold onto them. VDV's the one that I can't get my head around. he came in, he showed he's a class player, he made an impact, he scored goals (when Crouchie was on the pitch)...but I can't help thinking that the team set up that was altered to suit him was the cause of the lack of goals from the strikers.

    We've had a glut of injuries (Modric, Daffy, Hudds...all the Center-backs, Bale, VDV's on again off again with the thigh or calf strain issue...BAE was sorely missed this past weekend; but, all teams suffer through this, its part of the game.

    Lastly Harry...he's made good choices and bad choices, good tactics and some real head scratching stuff (and does that guy have Parkinson's...that twitch makes you wonder). Head scratch- sitting Krancjar after he scored two winners in a row for us...playing Bassong, full stop (laughs!) Playing Jenas full stop!! I think its clear that Pavy does his best work coming off the bench...but when he comes off the bench and does well, he starts the next time out and stinks the place up.

    Not sure what we'll need next season. If you think that Modric, Sandro, Bale and Dawson are the back bone (and of course we know others will stay)...who do we bring in to complement the core and make us better. If I knew I'd be making a mint o' money right now...so at some point I'll join the specualtion with everyone else.

    We're not out of it yet...but I've stopped holding my breath...let's at least finish upbeat (and ahead of Liverpool...how the f did that happen!!

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    • whatever the difference between youngsters & fringe players, it doesnt explain why i must have ment using 4 or 5 in 1 match.

      i agree, harry keeps far too many that he obviously doesnt rate or have faith in.

      no i dont think john is an idiot, he is far more intelligent than me.

      i was basically saying he isnt stupid so why does he think for himself for everyone elses posts. but when i post he questions something that he could have easily worked out himself if he thought about it.

    • There is, or can be, a difference between "youngsters" and "fringe players" anyway. Arry seems to think that having a big squad like Manure is the way forward but the difference is fergie plays a lot more of them than Arry does. 29 players (I think that was the figure quoted last night although I admit it sounds very high) for Manure in the CL alone this year.

      Arry has a big squad but then does not play them or loans them out. Not sure why other than IMO most of them are just not good enough but if that is the case then why keep them?

      Certainly sounds like you are calling John an idiot SB but, that said, everybody knows your posts are not always what they appear.

    • & actually i think i know very little about football.

      & also im on the thick side of the intelligence scale!

      none of us a how lot about football. but thats why footballs great, everyones an expert!

      after all, the majority of us on here are armchair spurs fans.

      i only go to 3 or 4 games a yr so what do i know.

      so on the hardcore spurs fan scale, iam on the softcore side of the scale!

    • actually sfer, i dont think john is.

      im saying he must be that or not really think about what i say.

      i personally think he doesnt think about it.

      instead he just questions me, without thinking for himself.

      sfer, how do u get "As for giving the youngsters a game - didn't he do that against Woolwich and was roundly slammed for playing 'fringe' players?"

      because i wrote that i think harry should promote more youngsters? if u thought about it first, maybe i could possible mean just 2 or 3 at seperate times so that just 1 youngster is on the pitch

      how does it automatically mean i meant playing 4 or 5 at home against our rivals?

    • Thats really strange but having deciphered all of that I found myself agreeing on two points. Obviously I agree that Sandro is better than Hudd but also that Walker should have been kept and given a chance by us rather than another PL side. Letting him out to another PL side just does not sit well with me. If he is good enough for Villa then he should be at the very least good enough to have a chance in our line up.

      Apart from that the rest went over my head. I must be as thick, and as football illiterate, as you think John is.

    • The spine of any great team is crutial. You need above average players in the following: Goalkeeper, Central Defender, Central Midfield and Central Striker. Whether one or two players of that standard in those positions they need to be available and playing well all season.So where do we fall down????Compliment those with a Bale or two and European football will be a regular feature without relying on others to fail.
      However I am still very pleased with Spurs and Harry has our traditional style back in vogue. Well done Harry and the lads.

    • Harry and his team are out of their depth this time round. They havn't got the experienxce of top four let alone champions leauge. They have not performed at all well when it comes to lifting the team for the "small" games. Lets hope they learn their lesson in time for next season.

    • RamBro,
      maybe another thing is the longer term injuries. This isn't meant as an 'excuse thing' - just that i was looking at the player match minutes and it is really noticeable how many players suffered long term absences.

      Gomes - missed 6 consecutive games (Was that a good thing though?;-))
      King - I won't count the injuries - but he was available for only 8 games.
      Dawson - missed 18 consecutive games
      T'Hudd - missed 23 consecutive games
      Modric - missed 6 games early on - 3 out, back for half a game then out for another 3
      Bale - missed 6 consecutive games
      Daffy - missed 15 consecutive games
      Kaboul - missed 3 blocks of 5, 3 and 10 consecutive games
      Gallas - missed two blocks, one of 4 and one of 3 games (so is comparatively healthy!)
      VdV - has missed about 8 games on and off.
      Woodgate - Played ....30 mins
      Hutton - Missed two main blocks, one of 5 consecutive and one of 11 (so far)
      Corluka - missed 5 consecutive games

      I haven't bothered including Keane, Bentley and Dos Santos (says he including them!) - but all three of those were also injured for protracted periods before going on loan.

      I think most of the above would have been 'game starters' or minimum bench players. So the effect on the 'team' /squad appears to be quite marked. I hadn't really looked at that before to any degree - but if you look at http://www.myfootballfacts.com/Tottenham_Hotspur_Minutes_2010-11.html there seems to be more 'red' than black minutes.

      • 1 Reply to Jlock
      • John, you'll find that Joan fully supports the idea that it would have been a different game if we had gone in 1up at half time...and it probably would have...my issue is, why did we come apart so badly when that non-goal was counted.

        As for the injury thing, well, its significant enough to be an excuse...its got to be a manager's nightmare when you have that much turnover in your team...you can't name a settled team; partnerships in every third of the pitch never gel...and you have to play people out of position, so, thanks for putting that out there, John.

        Of course my initial post was talking about the season as a whole...and while things look gloomy and dim we're not out of it until City win 2 matches. So for us, we need to pull our socks up and take care of the part we have control of...winning our matches!

        Other good points made in this thread...the buying and selling of players; we as fans pretty much know who the dead wood are, but getting what you want for them can be a problem (I still say QPR got Taraabt or is Taarabt for a bargain...yes he's a headcase and a bit greedy on teh ball, but as I said early in the season (pre-season in fact when Spurs came to New Jersey), I didn't realise how big a lad he was, I thought he was a waspy dribbler easily bumped off the ball (ditto Bale...a lot biggeer in person, although, he's starting to look his size on telly to me now (I know, something wrong with my eyes!).
        I don't think that any of our fringe players I'll call them would not be welcomed somewhere in the PL...but probably not at the price we want for them.
        Incoming? It's been said, they've first got to want to come here and then the price has to match their abilities, not just what the selling team wants (see...works both ways). So we could break the bank for that top-class striker who may or may not perform for us, or we can sit tight with what we've got (or luck upon a diamond in the rough, something Harry was known for prior to coming here, but has not exhibited any of that buying guile since he's come here...wonder why, hmmm?)

    • We create plenty and defend reasonably well. We have lots of possesion and attack a lot.

      Its the strikers, simples. We have had to rely on midfield and defence to score our goals this season. Need at least one world class stiker and central defender.

      Oh and a new goal keeper as Gomez gets worse each game

      • 1 Reply to Nick
      • good posts.

        i agree with a lot & i think the mis-firing strikers obviously had an impact BUT that wasnt the only reason.

        gomes & a shaky defensive at times didnt help.

        some of harrys head scratches like u mentioned rambro.

        fitting in vdv was tricky to say the least!

        levy & harry being slow to realise this team was going to struggle to get 4th didnt help. wake up & smell the coffee.

        this includes not getting another foward, LB & CB.
        i wont include RB because we have walker who for whatever reason harry/levy decided not to use?!

        the fact was city were going to be stronger than last season so we need to up our game. but i felt we kind of just stagnated.

        again harry/levy are only know realising we need to get rid of some of the deadwood even thou it was clear jenas,bentley, keane etc shouldnt have even been at the club at the start of the season.

        the good news is maybe harry will now realise we need another LB to compete with ekotto, another goalscorer & a younger CB.

        levy has now realised we need to get rid of the deadwood, players the manager has no faith in on massive wages or being sent out on loan is stupid.

        & my personal hope- is we start promoting a few of the youngsters. i dont know what it will take for them to get a chance?

        i mean we have been average at RB all season & walker has been getting rave reviews, then both RB pick up injurys & still walker stays at villa.

        if they didnt put a call bk clause in then someone needs a ruler on the knuckles, school boy error!

        also at times i felt the set up especially in midfield was far too attacking which was shown against arsenal.

        yes, strikers have mis-fired
        yes, certain games we created hatfuls & still didnt score.
        yes,we did well in defence in certain games.

        but also there were a lot of games

        where we created nothing & whatever striker played was just running around with no service.

        wigan both games, utd both games, chelsea (a), fulham cup, newcastle (a), ac milan (h), madrid (a), blkburn (a).

        theres 10 games & i think 3 goals & in those games we scored it was prob our only real chance & even then, 1 was a sandro thunderbolt, 1 was lennon doing it all himself & the other a crouch header.

        & our defending in some games was comical to say the least!

        so far this season there has been 17 games where we would have had to score 3 & sometimes 4 or 5 to have won!

        u cant need to score at least 3 goals in 17 games to win!

    • Rambro,
      I don't think I've ever seen a season where all the strikers simply failed to deliver. From Keane to Daffy it all seemed to go pear shaped. Even trying (all be it on limited occassions) Two Saints seemed a no go.
      The defence not being 'stable' didn't help either - and as I said on another thread, it would be interesting to know from the defence what effect Gomes has on them, as IMHO, he must have a de-stabilising effect. I'm not sure if that can be laid at 'arry's door - as he did (does) persist with King/Woodgate, when, again IMHO, King has been a 'premanent' problem for a couple of seasons at least and Woodgate - although he looked as though he may come back - just seems too prone to injury.

      I would say that the above issues start toward the end of last season. As pointed out elsewhere, the goals were drying up then - but we didn't seem to create as many chances. This season, 'arry seems to have rectified the lack of 'provision' and it just seems we've forgotten how to score.

      If you then add in VdV and his effect on the structure of the team, then I think you have the final piece in the jigsaw. Admittedly, without his goals we wouldn't be where we are - and without him, we were looking to Crouch as a long ball more. So he has had a major beneficial effect (a dozen goals isn't to be sneezed at) - but I just feel, that overall, he's caused more of a problem than he's solved.

      But we're coming up to the end of the season, and 'arry can assess what he thinks needs to be done and how he can blend the individuals into (IMHO) a more coherent whole.
      It also seems the 'club' can't carry the cost of the squad, which is fine, as long as 'arry isn't then forced into doing business, rather than wanting to.