Tottenham Hotspur Message Board
He can stay unhappy for all I care. The amount of chances I've seen him throw away infront of goal this season is a utter disgrace. Sure, he scored 2 good goals against a very weak Wolves defence, and one against Blackpool. But that isn't enough, there have been times where I think if I was on the pitch I'd have a better chance of scoring. Him and Pavluchenko need to go, they run around like headless chickens out of place, on top of that Robbie Keane is also missing so many chances now for WH so hopefully a Championship side will buy him.
If Defoe/Pavluchenko had knocked in goals against those lower teams which we drew 1-1 or 0-0 with, I'm pretty sure we'd just edge City to fourth again.
Please Harry, sell Kranjcar, Jenas, Palacios, Keane, Bentley, Ohara, Defoe, Pavluchenko. The money earned plus hopefully funds to buy HULK & FALCAO!!!! ?
My point excatly SB.
Crouch out of 10 IMO
Shooting from outside the box = 3
Shooting from inside the box = 4
Holding the ball up = 4
Heading goals = 5 (and thats generous)
Winning knock on headers against defenders = 5
Passing = 5
Tapping in from one yard = 9 (he has missed those too)
Looking like an embarrasing box of broken straws = 10
Ability to make even the best team incessantly play the long ball = 10
Nah, get rid ASAP.
agree with sfer. with the right partner defoe would score 20 goals a season.
actually rambro defoe did score against us for pompey.
yes, why does vdv feel the need to drop so deep & take the ball off our defenders?
id get rid of keane for obvious reasons. pav is too lightweight for this league, sell him back to russia or a ukranian team.
keep crouch as something different unless we buy another target man.
keep defoe as he will score with the right partner & keep vdv as he is class.
buy 2 strikers to replace keane & pav.
hulk would be a huge gamble, he does some good things but looks poor at other times. overall i dont think he would make it in a top prem team.
i really like falcao thou! gets in good positions & a clinical finisher. only 25 & great at heading too!
i think falcao is a much better player than hulk & would do very well in the premiership.
problem is he would probably only leave for a CL club.
would cost the total price of selling keane,pav, o hara & jenas But that would be well worth it!
my concern is that whatever striker plays in our current system will be left isolated & not actually have many chances or the support to score many.
iv said all along we rely on goals & chances to come from so deep that it makes scoring very hard.
anelka- no! decent but goes missing for many games, sulker & is not getting any younger
drogba- wouldnt come to us so no point talking about it(although i do rate him highly).
sfer- i really get annoyed at crouch taking long shots. he cant get any power behind it & has prob never scored from more than 12yards so why does he try these rubbish long shots that barely reach the goal.
Just breifly on the point of scoring goals don't forget that last season we had more different players score in the EPL than any other team. That was never a record that could be sustained.
I've also noticed as the season has gone on that Crouch, Lennon and a few others have seemed less willing to take a shot on. I think as we've scored less some players are feeling the effect and have become worried about being the one that misses so pass the buck to someone else. In that respect at least Daffy can generally be relied upon to retain self belief enough to keep having a pop.
Also there are times when you watch a game and you're just thinking SHOOT but VdV is on the fringes of the play asking for the ball and his stature is such that the other player feels compelled to give the ball to him. Whoever comes in up front needs to have a strong enough personality to hold their own in that respect with VdV.
A case could be made for getting rid of all our strikers based on their productivity (or lack thereof) this season.
Most strikers miss more than they hit (common knowledge); the best strikers don't necessarily miss the least; but they do have the ability to score goals out of nowhere, out of nothing...create their own chances...be in the right place at the right time. A lot of that comes with regular outings.
I've been scratching my head at what's been going on with our strikers this season and came to the conclusion that setting up the team to accomodate VdV was a good thing...for VdV, but not good for the other strikers (Crouch included...strikers want to be known for scoring goals not setting them up for others, although that is a part of the job...but that's basically what Crouch became; the goal-maker rather than the goal scorer).
In fact if you look at the numbers (yes, it's stat time) Crouch and Defoe have scored the same amount of goals this season (league), but Crouch has appeared in 5 more games.
Daffy's gripe about being unhappy on the bench also bears examination, as the stats show that he's started the most games of all the three strikers eeven though he's played/appeaered in the least amount of games. In other words, when he's available to play, he usually starts (all but 6 of his 21 games have been starts). So Daffy's problem, in addition to being in a line-up that doesn't suit him, has been injuries. Just for the record Crouch has not only played more games than Daffy, he's played more as a starter too...which leaves us with the enigma that is Pavy...also started more games than Daffy...almost scored as many as the two others combined...but basically does his best work off the bench!
After that little synopsis, and the fact that VdV has thrown his hat in with us for the near future, it looks like Daffy is on the outside looking in (and probably knows it). Pavy is worth keeping if he can handle not being a regular starter...so that leaves Crouch...do we keep Crouch just to complement VdV at the possible detriment to the rest of the team? What happens if we do get that class striker in that we seemingly so desparately need...and he doesn't gel with VdV either...but scores goals anyway.
What's my conclusion...On the surface I agree with Sfer in that letting Daffy go could end up hurting us...but history has shown that it won't (he didn't do much if anything against us while at Pompey did he?). Without some changes to the current line-up, I can't see Defoe getting much satisfaction, so maybe for his career, a move away might be the best thing for him.
Crouch...VdV be damned; Crouch makes us too one-dimensional when he's playing..route one long ball all the way...sell him to.
Keane - DOA from Liverpool; we should've never taken him back; he's been on my sh*tlist since he left and i wish he would just leave again.
So that would leave us with our budding super-sub, Pavy, who doesn't want to play off the bench...what to do, what to do?
Who, that could do the business for us up front and that we could realistically afford to buy, is available to replace our ailing front line?
- 1 Reply to RAMBR0
But the problem didn't start this season!
Sfer said jokingly on a thread earlier today, that if we had scored an additional 10 goals this season, they would probably all have been in one game.
Look back to last season - that is what happened - and early on. We scored (from recollection) 64 goals in all, 19 of which were in 3 games (that's over a quarter of our goals in 3 games)
Again from recollection, so please check, but I think we got 40+ goals in the first half of last season and 20+ in the second. So we were at the same strike rate as this season r from Jan of last season on.
So that discounts VdV as being the prime 'cause' per se, as we hadn't even bought him then. I thought at first that we just weren't creating chances at the back end of last season, but that seemed to have been resolved this season as we appear to create enough but still we didn't score.
I still can't spot what the issue is/was - but it looks to me like an inability of any pairing of VdV/Crouch/Daffy/Pav/(Keane as was) to form a partnership and work with each other up front.
So (IMHO) VdV is just a symptom.
Crouch tends to force the long ball as pointed out, which then means he needs someone close to work off him. But half the time the long ball ends in a foul or losing the ball anyway.
Pav scores spectacularly, but fails to do the simple things well. Again he seems to be akin to Daffy - maybe he feels he has something to prove so takes the shot on rather than looking for a better ball.
Daffy, just wants to score, so tends to be oblivious of anyone around him.
VdV as pointed out by virtually everybody, just goes walkabout - he goes bush. He works, but in the wrong areas.
Keane was akin to VdV when he came back - working, but too deep. Unlike Vdv though, he never got a handful of goals. The odd thing, in the WHU games that I've seen where he's played - he's missed a couple of sitters - but at least he was in the right place. Why didn't he do that for us?
So does it point to our midfield not providing the ball the strikers can work with? Why does VdV feel the need to drop so deep (and Keane)? Do we rely too heavily on Lennon and Bale when Daffy is playing for instance - IE Daffy doesn't work well with wing play? Or too heavily on Hudd and Daws when Crouch plays - IE too much long ball? Is the problem playing Hudd and Crouch? I haven't worked out with Pav what does and doesn't work with him - as half the time he receives the ball he ends up on his backside.
Maybe the catalyst will be bringing in one striker - and suddenly we'll find that that one person will work with any of the others.
He is fragile to injury and how can you be so sure? He doesn't show any signs of improving his game, even he says "He;s been working hard" yet when he does get given time to play, which Harry has given him plenty of he just hasn't produced.
- 1 Reply to Emilio
Thats the thing Emilio, only time will tell who is right and who is wrong. If we sell him and he gets 20+ goals next season I will not remember to say "I told you so" and if he has another miserable season for us I don't expect you will remember to give me some stick.
I actually don't think he has had that much actual playing time and like all strikers he needs time to get into it. He is as sharp as he always has been IMO so he just needs regular football, a slap on the back from Arry and a decent playing striker partner.
I stil think Defoe will get his fair share of goals in the PL BUT ONLY if he is played in the right position with the right strike partner.
He can't play up front on his own and because Arry wants to play VDV he has to leave Defoe on the bench.
Mark my words, if we sell Defoe he will come back to haunt us far more than the selling of Bent has.
- 1 Reply to Sfer
Daffy will score. He does. I think all of the strikers we have are capable. Daffy, Pav and Keane have records of scoring 14/15 a season. Crouch maybe 9 or 10.
I personally hate knee jerk reactions. BUT I think that irrespective of the goals scored by the strikers this season, what was apparent was that we didn't have any combination that appeared to gel as a pair.
IMHO 'arry has another dilemma, as the only one who formed any sort of partnership was Crouch with VdV - although that is dubious. But (IMHO) Crouch is then the worst of the strikers left (ignoring Keane who I think is a goner anyway). So what do you do? Get rid of Big C and risk also losing goals from VdV?
I would guess whatever happens, 'arry will line up at least one new striker first, before deciding on who goes. But he may then run the risk of having players on the books at the start of next season that he doesn't want.
PS I like the Daffy comment...
'"I want to help the club achieve things, win trophies and get in the Champions League, but when you feel like you are working hard, training hard and being professional, and then for some reason you are not playing, it is difficult," Defoe told Sky Sports News.
Hmmmmmm - let me guess that 'for some reason' may be related to not scoring goals?