Tottenham Hotspur Message Board
I'm surprised that there's no single thread on your site on this serious issue in the game, especially at a time when our referees are struggling to officiate matches.
I'm of the opinion that players' cheating is as equally bad as referees ruining matches by officiating incompetently as we saw at Stamford Bridge and on many occasion this season. It doesn't help referees when players are throwing themselves to the ground without being touched by the opposing team's player. I think it's about time for the FA to step in and use video evidence against the cheating scumbags.
It's bad enough for the referees who are struggling to cope with the pace of the game, it certainly doesn't help at all by trying to deceive them into making the wrong decision.
It's about time the FA do something to stop this deceitful practice, or on the alternatively, how about both sets of fans booing the culprit to show their solidarity that we don't want that sort of thing in our game?
There's also a great article on this issue in the link below -- today's ED.
Totally agree. The problem for any ref is how to tell the difference though. I honestly thought that Bale had been caught from the TV footage, until they showed it from a different angle and then you could see he didn't get touched at all.
To me, the EPL has become so infected with 'gain an advantage at all cost' that they're in danger of turning the game into a farce of sly digs and cheating.
Obviously, I'd like to think that Bale doesn't intentionally cheat, but I haven't a clue as to what was going through his head any more than I have of knowing if 'arry intentionally tried to defraud HMRC. All you can do is look at the person overall, history of performance and the incident in question and come to a conclusion. It's still a guess though.
I do find it odd though that players get really slammed as divers (which is fine if they are) BUT the players who intentionally kick people (and they are 'known') and who 'put themselves about a bit' aren't - as though it is acceptable to cheat by intentionally kicking, but not for diving. Neither's right when done intentionally surely.
I found it amusing when our latest pensioner signing said (paraphrased): '....it was great to be at training and to be among the sort of players that only a few weeks back I was trying to kick....'. Hope that was humour.
Fair play Slayer-
Jurgen was Olympically recognised for his dives he made it art! ha ha.
I wouldn't agree that Bale always dives, but it has been pointed out previously that it is happening to often, I truly hope that he cuts it out but if he doesn't I'll have a degree of understanding, especially as he has seen the difficulties of the recovery process in his good friend Ramsey.
We will have to disagree on the RVP elbow, after seeing it live and watching in on replay's his look across to place Villa makes it highly likely that he meant it IMO obviously. If he had meant it, would you defend him?
Any player who has to try and recover from a Eduardo/Ramsey type injury will always be affected, the sound of breaking bones alone will never leave them (its a distinctive noise/feeling), the recovery that follows can be soul destroying.
I've read interviews where Ramsey states he wishes he could exact revenge for that challenge, although I don't think I could go that far, I certainly would never think ill of Ramsey for holding those views, in many ways Shawcross got away scott free. If Ramsey dived or evaded similar challenges in future I would think that was sensible, I would certainly not think of him as scared or cowardly.
Good banter, good response. Cheers
"we do not have a history of diving"???
Joe, I may be mistaken here but didn't Jürgen Klinsmann play for you lot?
Having watched Bale over the last 2 seasons, it's fair to conclude that he always goes down too quickly under tackles and dived a lot. He's as bad as Eboue was for us.
"Did you condemn RVP for elbowing Cuellar in the face?"
As I've previously stated on the Arsenal board, I think it was accidental and unintentional. Furthermore, RVP has no history of elbowing hence it's very difficult for me to a valid opinion on his alleged elbowing incident.
"Would you understand if Ramsey took evasive action to avoid another leg break?!"
No, a player would become wholly ineffective at his job the moment you allow fear to take control. Fear can own you if you allow it. Look at Eduardo, he was sold by Arsenal mainly because he never really recovered psychologically from his terrible injury. In his last season with Arsenal, it became apparent to the management and fans that he was avoiding tackles which led to him becoming ineffective in his role.
I know that you're trying to give Bale the benefit of the doubt in this instance but personally I still think that his reputation precedes him. He's done it before, he will do it again (my *opinion* on this divisive issue).
ps, I'm sorry to hear about your horrific injury btw.
Dont say I didnt warn you about slayer and pixie!
they love to dish it out but are the biggest babies when having to take it.
your board would be better off not entertaining them at all
hey pixie remember this?
Are you reading these messages?
Bale has been condemned for his dive, nobody wants to see it, what we are exploring and speculating over is the reason for it?! we do not have a history of diving, cheating, dirty players so its unusual and worthy of conversation, even if it is purely speculative.
Did you condemn RVP for elbowing Cuellar in the face?
Would you understand if Ramsey took evasive action to avoid another leg break? I would!
I've have broken my leg once and had it broken once through a horror challenge, I would do pretty much whatever I could to avoid that experience again. If that was on Bales mind I can understand it, I don't want to see him dive but I can understand why he and other players might, incidentally Ronaldo and Messi regularly dive and I don't want to see them do it either, that said I'd rather they all dived or fell to avoid a broken leg, rather than stand their ground and miss 6-12 months!
With players like Adam, Shawcross, Pepe and many others in the game, there is reason for the Bales of this world to be evasive when required.
Not condoning, trying to understand.
Now please answer a few of the questions aimed at you, its merely courteous.
last time you posted on this board you said you weren't doing so for a wind up, does that apply to your latest contribution! if you had read the thread directly underneath this one (the 'Pool game') you would have seen that Bales dive has been condemned, none of us want to see it and some of us have highlighted this part of his game in the past.
Interestingly enough the many of players in European leagues would have reacted in the same way that Bale did, simulation is only really held with such disdain in the UK, in Spain it is positively encouraged.
Nobody wants to see him dive, however I'm sure you'll agree he has to consistently put up with being kicked pillar to post by players like Skertel and Adam (you may not remember the challenge Adam made on Bale when he was still at Blackpool, but it put Bale out for a long time!) I can understand how frustrating that must be for him, he appears to receive minimal protection from officials.
I'd have thought a goon may understand that with some of the lengthy lay off's your lot have experienced due to poor challenges! No?!
I'm surprised you haven't commented on the two 'should have been' red card incidents! Skertel's challenge on Bale left a large cut across his shin was well over the ball and could have been another Shawcross v Ramsey incident, but for the grace of the big man! and Suarez punted Parker in the stomach after his leading elbow failed to make contact, IMO the man's a wrong'un.
With regards to the link you posted, the far bigger issue IMO is the racist one, one which King Kenny did nothing but exacerbate last night with his infantile, tribalistic comments. The FA should take action against him IMO.
Last time you were on here, we engaged in decent debate, I've read some of your comments on the goon page and you make some good contributions. Despite other posters labelling you as a wind up merchant and worse we gave you the benefit of the doubt, were we wrong to do that?! Lets hope not.
I'm sure your suggestion of both sets of fans boo'ing would work, however if the Scousers can support Suarez for his crimes then I fear there is very little chance of that happening.
I'd be interested to read your comments on the 'Pool thread'
Laters, Yiddo hater!
This has been mentioned here already.
I'm against diving, shirt pulling, holding, intimidation - in fact anything that could be construed as cheating - as I honestly don't see what it proves. If you have to cheat to win, what does that show? That you're better at cheating or at playing the game?
The only mitigating factor, IMHO, is when you have a player who is targeted and constantly kicked. This happens to most strikers (so I'm not just excusing a Spurs player here) - and I can fully understand why they tend to jump out of the way when they see the studs of a size 11 heading for their shins. The issue again then isn't clear is it? As should the attacker simply stand their ground and risk a serious injury, or try to get out of the way of what could have been a foul? IMHO, in Bale's case, he should not have made a fuss, he should have just got up. But as pointed out elsewhere, then Skrtel should have (IMHO) been red carded later for a studs up challenge that took Bale at calf height even after he'd jumped out of the way.
What are your thoughts? Would you play and stand your ground and risk a broken leg? I'm not sure I would. But as the rules are, no foul is committed if the tackle 'misses' but is that because the defender didn't mean to hit the player, or because the player was too quick at getting out of the way?
- 2 Replies to Jlock
Bale deserved a card for cheating. Suarez deserved a red as did skrtle. In both cases that is sub standard refereeing. What would have happened if they had both been sent off. 2 points lost due to poor refereeing, 3 points lost against man city for poor refereeing, 3 points lost to stoke for the same. 8 points on spurs, 3 off city & they are top without a doubt.
Any conspiracy theorists out there?
I'd always jump, fall or move out of the way. I think most people would do the same, self preservation is a basic instinct and not an easy one to override.
Look at Aaron Ramsey, still a good player, but IMO he's still not the player he was prior to his 'incident' with Shawcross, Eduardo never recovered IMO.
A superb and accurate retort as ever.