Tottenham Hotspur Message Board
Not directly Spurs this - thought occurred from Man U-Liverpool & has League-wide implications...
After Suarez refused to shake Evra's hand, I looked for info on how the racism complaint was lodged (in my memory, it didn't come from Evra, in which case the lack of handshake seems particularly ridiculous, but I'm not sure I'm right). I didn't find that, but I did find extracts from the FA report on the case - http://www.guardian.co.uk/football/2012/jan/01/fa-report-luis-suarez-patrice-evra
To be honest, from looking at this, they both seem to really believe their version of the story, so I can sort of see why Suarez is so annoyed (although I think he's wrong). However, what worries me is that all 4 of Evra, Giggs, Kuyt and Mariner recall Evra being upset and talking to the ref about racism being used in the match, and the ref didn't even acknowledge it. If it was my workplace that would be classified as a formal complaint to someone in a position of authority, and as such immediate action would be taken. If for some reason immediate action couldn't be taken reassurance would be given and guaranteed to be followed up; Evra got ignored.
I'm not interested in a "PC Brigade" debate or discussing whether it's fair to single out racist insults as unacceptable; regardless of personal opinions there are laws and procedures in place and frankly Evra's been let down by the FA's implementation of them. We all remember situation with John Terry & Ledley, & that was years ago and dealt with immediately (if the alleged incidence occurred, of course...); footballers deserve the right to go to work and not have their colleagues pour abuse on them as much as anyone.
A bit of a tangent, but the report also mentions Suarez saying he didn't understand much of what the referee said to him. This is understandable, he's only recently moved to the country and spends a lot of time with people who speak his language or similar ones, so we can't be surprised if he's not perfected the language yet, but how on earth can the ref officiate if the players don't understand what he's saying? It's ridiculous - surely there's a need for either a working understanding of the language or for (e.g.) nominated players to translate?? In this scenario, had he understood the ref, it's possible that the situation with Evra could have been diffused a lot earlier, and I'm sure many many other players have been in similar situations.
I find it fascinating, but ultimately it looks to me that the FA have a lot of work to do on implementing the basics of employment law (I realise they're not the employers, but they are the external assessing body and as such take the position of power) and fair treatment for their members.
NBR- Epic! and a meaty topic.
You deserve a response, I hope can do your fine efforts justice, bear with me.
Suarez opted to leave Holland to play in England, if you or I went to work elsewhere, we would be expected to have at least a basic grasp of the native language, in some positions you would need to be fluent, if you can't, won't or don't speak the language, then to an extent that's your problem, learn it!
Maybe I'm cynical (no maybe about it), but I think Suarez probably has a very adequate grasp of English and he's glinging to whatever excuse he's been advised to offer since the event.
I agree with you in that everyone deserves the right to work, abuse free. Football seems to be a law unto its self and seeing the way the players speak to officials and each other (including team mates) IMO there is a culture of abuse thats rife at the heart of football.
This is purely subjective, at every club I've played for, bad and foul language is common place and there is little that's sacred, most things are fair game (excuse the pun) and all sorts offensive names are used, some of which in a complimentary manner, context is a massive part of what's offensive and what's banter IMO.
I think you're right in that both Evra and Suarez believe they are innocent or at least equally responsible. As Suarez admitted to using language that the FA deemed racially offensive he has virtually admitted guilt and as such deserves his punishment. Evra as far as I know has not admitted to using racially offensive language and therefore in many people eyes is an innocent party.
IMO Evra is also a nasty piece of work and was probably enticing/winding Suarez up, does this excuse Suarez's choice of abuse? Not for me! I just don't believe Suarez is that ignorant, or that he wasn't fully aware of how offensive his language is/was.
It my understand that, If I used racially offensive language at work, I would be guilty of gross misconduct and if the evidence was strong enough I could face instant dismissal. If the evidence wasn't enough, I would be suspended with full pay pending an investigatory process, if sufficient evidence was gathered during this time, I would eventually be sacked after following a disciplinary process.
I'm not sure what Mariner could do unless he heard the conversation with Suarez, in which case he'd have to send him off and report the incident. IMO Mariner should have insisted on all players shaking hands or they should have cancelled it alla' QPR V Chavs. The non shake was the icing on the cake in this horrid little tale IMO.
I think that Evra reported the incident to the FA after the game. Which meant they FA could only act after an official complaint was made.
What I find so puzzling is that the FA were well aware of the level of emotion prior to Saturdays game, yet they took no extra measure to avoid a repeat of the incident, they allowed a man who was found guilty of a pretty serious and emotive crime to come in direct contact with the victim of his crime. Surely part of Suarez's punishment should have prevented him playing in the next fixture between the teams?
Infact why don't they do that for every straight red, it means the 'wronged' club would receive a direct benefit for the crimes committed against them, oh god I'm about to go off on one!
I've talked about this subject to the extent that I have taken years off some people lives! sorry if you're one of them!
- 3 Replies to Joe
That is why football in particular (and other team sports to some extent) is so fascinating and addictive - you get a microcosm of human emotion in 90 minutes. A 90 minute reflection - and I think that each of our responses tells us a lot about ourselves.
Where will this incident end up - what will be the ripple effect? The Scousers maybe lose their manager and Swearez? Fail to get CL football, so lose big sponsor money and start a slow slide? Or do they close ranks and fight harder and gain 4th? The cause and effect is cause....syndrome. It looks like something so innocuous but ends up in a major event.
A storm in a teacup, elevated to Atlantic size by we know who...
There is no right or wrong left in this, just an unhealthy interest by both parties in defending what little they have left of a reputation. Other than that, we have a football match where 2 players swore at each other; or at least one did. Either way it doesnt matter; or it shouldn't have done anyway.
Thanks Joe, that's all I wanted - a semblance of interest from someone ;-)
I reckon you've got a point on the straight red, at least if it's given retrospectively - in those cases the team/individual who sufferedy a serious and cynical foul get nothing for it, that can't be right, and you'd think it would reduce petulance in the late stages of closely matched teams.
I think I find the whole Evra-Suarez-right-wrong-rules situation so interesting because it's such a mess of moral right vs legal right vs FA right vs lies vs honesty vs devious behaviour vs misinterpretation vs gut reactions. It's very difficult to legislate for as it's largely based on the recipient's feelings, but there are basic legal requirements and it concerns me if football believes it's own hype and is becoming a law unto itself.
You're probably right about him playing the language card, but not everyone's like that - look at Pav. Yes it's their responsibility to learn the language (and it would be a requirement in most jobs, probably for visas too), but if the FA aren't going to put those rules in place shouldn't they offer their officials some support?
I'll drop it now, that's almost a promise!
- 1 Reply to not_blonde_really
iv had a quick look but personally i think why the hell should refs protect players more, when players treat refs so badly.
protection for refs i say!
how can u expect a ref to stop verbal abuse when the players constantly give him verbal abuse & are all cheating, diving, faking injury, whinging etc.