Tottenham Hotspur Message Board
This is not sour grapes and I'm not sure it would have changed the outcome as Chelski wanted it more than us apparently but why was Chech not sent off?
Yes I know the ref played the advantage and Bale scored but by fouling Adebayor did he not deny Ade a goalscoring opportunity when he was the last man? Ref's normally go back to book players after playing an advantage so what was different in this case?
As I said I don't think it would change the result, just querying about lack of consistancy from ref's again!!
HMMMM now I wonder will the FA give him a red card retrospectively???
I completely agree with your final point, we had the easiest draw by some way and we should have progressed to the semi's, lets be honest, Stevenage and Watford put up the biggest challenge, with respect they're teams we should sweep aside with a youth/second team.
In theory you are absolutely right with regards to your second paragraph, as professionals, our squad should be able to motivate themselves, sadly I fear we are similar to many EPL teams and have one or two divas in our ranks, I think its quite conceivable that one or two of our boys may be throwing their toys about and stamping their feet over Harry's departure. Maybe I'm just overly cynical?
I think your right with regards to tactics and formations, I also think Harry failed to rotate players at the right times, with regards to Jake, I think he will be a very good player, but I think too much has been asked of him at times this season. I'm confident that he and Harry will learn from those mistakes, but that won't help us this season.
We must find a way to strengthen in the summer, we have enough players who are potentially leaving the club to generate some funds, lets just hope Brendan Rogers (My pick as H's replacement) is prepared to/ allowed to spend it properly.
This weekend is just so big, we must win!
Great points SB,
You have pretty much encapsulated, why I've found some of Harry's selections/tactics so frustrating at times, lets hope that whoever comes in to replace H, can identify Harry's short fallings as well as the many superb things he's done and keep us/get us progressing again.
P.S. did you see the Chav V Barca game? wow!
A superb summary Remmah,
This type of pure football debate is increasingly rare on this site and something we should all treasure and look to preserve, so many other boards on this site are basically abuse pages, bar the odd troll who strolls in we have managed to avoid that, well done chaps and chapettes, lets keep it football!
It's difficult for fan's because we dont have inside knowledge of whats being said to the player's on how to play each game. All we have is Harry once commenting that " I just tell them to go out and play? " I think we can excuse the first two game's against the manc's club's on the ground's that they got a game in before we started ( although 1-5 hurt ) but after that, we went on a run, and as we know winning breed's confidence, and when a team's fresh you can go on a run that look's like your never going to lose. but there come's a point when the run come's to an end, and confidence can disappear as quick as a flash. Then at that crucial stage, the club allow's player's to leave, or go on loan, giving very few option's to rest certain player's. then we get Saha in, and put him straight in the team at Defoe's expence, so one unhappy player which in turn can upset the dressing room, especially those close to him. Taking out Harry's change of formation affecting our style, and just looking at the player's, ( take Walker as an example ) then in the last 5-6 game's you can see he could do with a couple of game's rest, just to refresh himself, but we shipped out all cover for him. that also mean's you lose cover for CB because Corluca could play there in an emergency, same as Bassong, ( again you wouldnt want him to be first choice, but to bring on and rest someone for last 30 min's ? ) So there' a lot that change's from the first 4 month's in a player's physical and mental state. I for one, have never felt Harry is capable of managing a top side tactically and said as much in pre-season...On your opinion that we were in for a chance of the title in the form we were in at the time, then I agree if we carried it through to the end we would of had every chance, but as SB seem's to be saying, with the squad we have, it was never realistic, so based on that I absolutely agree with her it was never going to happen, so your both right looking at it on your own logic...Blimey, there's so many variable's where it can go pear shape. It's easy from a fan's perspective, but there's so much more that going on that we dont know about...
Odd that it doesn't take much to change it. Look back at Bale. He looked a good prospect when he joined. Then he played a couple of iffy (not even bad) games and then the record of not being on a winning side.....The media then have a field day with that. Every game a reminder. But then he finds it in himself on the pitch on the winning side and suddenly he's flavour of the month.
I'm not being pedantic with all this, and I do realise that the results have not been going our way, but would anyone be saying that much if we had carried on with the run? Would anyone (did anyone) question 'arry's tacky tickys when we were getting the results? We played Gallas/King/Kaboul/Daws interchangeably at the back - what really has changed?
OK, I'll take that it's perceived we're short in cover in certain areas - but didn't we have a problem on the left a couple of seasons back? What changed? New personnel? If we're short at right back, can that be THE problem when Walker's played what, 30+ games? That (so far and touch wood) hasn't been a major problem area IMHO.
I think that the difference between bad performances and bad results needs to be seen for being just that - not necessarily the same thing.
Can anyone out there tell me exactly what is the difference between now and 4 months back? Apart from that we're not getting the results?
good point remmah. thats why i always said against the really top teams we need to be a bit more defensive.
the 4-4 game with arsenal etc these are games where we should hae gone more defensive because u cant give teams like arsenal lots of time & space on the ball in the middle of the park. u can either put sandro in with parker for extra protection.
u can drop lennon or even someone like defoe etc from the team i would play.
thats whats scares me about harry. playing so open & attacking against the good passing attacking teams!
but then for example we play someone like stoke at home & he goes with just 1 out & foward! we all knew stoke would put every man behind the ball so this is a game where u can play 4-4-2 but he sticks to ade isolated on his own upfront!
my other annoyance is putting modric out on the left which is very stupid & so uneffective. & playing bale on the right is another annoyance!
its so unbalanced with modric wide left & bale wide right!
i think we needed to strengthen better in the last 4 transfer windows but didnt.
most of the article rings true. & harry has got his team selection & tactics wrong a lot this year.
i disagree with john about the 4-4-2 thing. we havent played the right 4-4-2 that people have asked for. u need a good ball winner to play 4-4-2. against norwich there was no parker or sandro, so this job was left to livermore... yikes! that was a disaster waiting to happen! i dont think anyone in their right mind thinks jake is ready to be our main defensive midfielder in what is a very attacking system! he has done well overall this year & im pleased with his progress. but he needs the help of parker or sandro. u just knew norwich would dominate the middle when i saw livermore as our only defensive midfielder.
team selection is far more important that tactics/formation. so if u mess up the selection, the tactics/formations etc goes out the window really.
i do think the england job has affected us but it shouldnt. players should be strong enough to cope with this. if its true they start not given their all because they think the manager is leaving, well how unprofessional is that! i really hope thats not true. i agree 100% with u on this one john locke. id understand if a death in the family or something like that had affected a player or manager. but not speculation the manager might leave! come on, what drama queens if thats true!
the fact we got to the semis is more due to the easy draw. just bolton in the premiership we had to beat to get there. soon as we faced a good side, we got smashed.
We all love to see Modder's, Bale, Lennon, VdV in full flow, and with Parker sitting in behind, it probably is the best attacking MF in the prem, but as we know, there's more to a game than just going forward. I think one of the major problem's is that when we're under pressure, the physique of these player's, are not strong enough to compete against most other MF's in the prem. Modder's closes space as best he can, but rarely tackles ( small stature ) Lennon, likewise, ( 1 off smallest player's in PL. VdV to slow and fouls rather than clean tackle, and Bale, for a former defender very rarely get's tackle's in, which leave's Parker as the only true tackler in there, and he cant cover everywhere, So you look to the bench, apart from Sandro and livermore who could give more strength, but then lose creativity there's little else we can do. Krankjar is the same as the other's that given time on the ball can look good, but come to the defensive side, is very poor. So put that in front of an ever changing back four, then it's easy to see why we can be so inconsistant when teams out muscle us...That's just one of the reason's why we cant see out a season IMO,...Flair has all way's been the Tottenham way, but if only our MFs had strength to go with it...
I think the media or certain sections of them can be incredibly powerful and sadly in some instances damaging, I think that can be underestimated at times.
Certainly if Harry or the players reading/hearing that they aren't as good (as before) week-in-week-out, then that could quite easily have an impact. If you tell a child they're naughty all the time, invariably they start to believe it and uphold their 'naughty' tag. Equally I believe the opposite can be true. Its all about how they/we react to the criticism/negativity.
Mathematically, we can still finish 3rd, although I have my doubts as to weather we will, I truly hope Harry and the Team can give it every last ounce of effort that they can muster, otherwise we'll be scrapping for 4/5th!
As even one wise goon has pointed out recently, it isn't over until the portly lady gets her pipes going!
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