Tottenham Hotspur Message Board
We're officially in free fall. We've played all the league newcomers in recent weeks and have come up short 2 out of 3.
Today I saw a QPR side who were full of heart...should we have lost to them...well of course not (sh*t...who do I support)...but do they deserve their win...definitely.
The pushed, harried...and sometimes fouled us...all to let us know they weren't there to be pushed around...us...some players stood strong..but not for the whole match (maybe Walker).
I saw too much "playground football" where everyone is chasing hte ball...whether we had possession or not. I saw two players crash into each other going for the same ball with the result being us losing possession. (I screamed at the telly when BAE and Gallas did it...shouting "YOU SPEAK THE SAME EFFIN' LANGUAGE...SORT IT OUT!
So what's the endgame should we not make the CL? Forget Modric staying, Bale's a possibility also. Ade won't sign even if we were to pay him close to what he wants. No telling who'll come in with whatever money we make from sales.
Future looks dim in light of this defeat (I really thought we'd get it together and come back...but I guess there's no gas left in the tank!)
1960's team won the double with the same team every week playing in conditions of ice fog snow and a pitch tha some times looked like a sandy beach on wages of 20 pounds a week were proud to wear the spurs shirt todays poofters who trip over a blade of grass and writher around like they have been shot on thousands of pounds a week are a disgrace to the name of tottenham hotspurs and when the going gets tough they just give up
John....We all see thing's through our own eye's, and I wouldnt want to impose my thought's over anyone else's. Im no more right than you or anyone else, because it's just opinion's. I love nothing better than to see two winger's skinning the full back's and whipping in ball's for other's to latch on too, and when I see our's, that IMO are the best in the league, cutting in all the time, it frustrates the hell out of me. Remember when Lennon first joined us, going past people for fun, but unable to put in crosses? well I think all the criticism got to him, and now he's scared to run at them, hence cutting inside, still exciting when he's on the ball, but again, running into a packed defence. I think I judge performance on seeing the team playing to all their strength's rather than playing as individuals...
I seem to remember a curse being put on the club back in the Sugar/Venerable day's, can we use that as an explanation why we always implode? damn, clutching for any excuse now lol...
OK so now you agree you should (or should I say not blame a manager if they did) encourage player to aim high under certain circumstances? Now the next question is when/what is you're cut off line? IE do you leave it like you said to the last 4 games before you say go for it, or do you do it earlier?
As for your latter point, that makes no sense. The current run of results is relegation form (ie 6 points from 9 games - would give <30 pts from 38 games) if we had been getting results like that all season - totally agree - BUT we can't be relegated (even if we lose all the rest of our games we can't drop below Liverpool). Does that make sense? Now try to follow this SB, BUT when 'arry said about the title, we COULD have won the title (see below). The results at that point, if we continued, were title winning form.
Can you see the subtle (or not so subtle) difference? You take the position where you are at a point in time, and project the results on that position. I haven't changed what I've said. And I don't think I will.
Let me give some other examples:
1) Two games into a season, if a team has won both games, that's title winning form.
2) two games into a season, if a team has lost both games or even drawn both, that is relegation form.
To make a projection over such a small period of time though would be a bit fanciful though. After 50% of the games have been played? Not so fanciful.
i can confirm john we never looked like scoring at all.
we played awful. kennys saves were all ones u would expect any half decent keeper to make.
i agree with a lot of what remmah has said. our style of play is so slow & all down the middle. its all too easy to defend against.
teams just get narrow with bodies behind the ball & as remmah said we try to bulldoze our way through the middle.
it reminds me of chelsea last season or your average italian team.
we cant play this way & its a bad way to play.
moving the ball quickly, using bale & lennon on the wings, lots of movement & support runners etc. thats what we are good at.
john, i think u are being ridiculously biased towards spurs when u comment on our performances.
we have had lots of average-bad performances.
there were games we won whilst playing badly like sunderland (h), wba (h), fulham (a)
lucky to draw away to swansea. they outplayed us.
but i agree we have had a few unlucky games of course.
stoke (a) robbed by the ref.
wolves (h) played badlly but should won as ade was onside
I take your point although I think the points difference between 1st and 2nd and the rest is the key John, and every season the gap between the top 2 and the rest seems to get bigger and bigger. City may have looked lacklustre but they have enough class about them to win games when they are not playing well - same with United. And you can't deny their class, at the very least consistent title contenders, at most the most successful Premier League team.
Class can be attributed to the player, the manager and/or the team. United and City have more world class players than we do so they can win games when not playing well - by producing that spark of invention or scoring that elusive goal when the odds are against them. Similarly, Ferguson is able to steer what some people have called the "weakest" Man Utd side in recent history on the brink of a second successive title. And the team as a whole just exudes quality, the whole is greater than the sum of its parts.
Time will tell if City will be able to maintain the same level. But they are certainly competing at the moment, a lot better than the rest of the league teams.
If that was all it was - possession, then I'd agree. But again, that hasn't been what I've seen - so maybe I am blinkered and out of step if evryone else is seeing it differently . There have been one or two games where we haven't created chances fine - but that happens to all teams.
I didn't see as I said the QPR game, but I listened to it. It sounded as though we created a few chances - but it's difficult to tell on the radio. The stats seemed to back it up with something like 20 shots, 6 on target (and 6 saves by Kenny). I'm happy if you say that those saves were the ball being hit like a back pass. If the consensus of those who saw the game says that we were awful, then I'll accept that, as I can't argue when I haven't seen it.
"now do you think that 'SAF' should be saying '...come on, we've got 1st lets hold it'....and similarly Mancini should be saying '....1st is within our grasp, lets take it....'.
wow what a huge jump john! from harry at xmas saying we can win the title, to city/utd saying it with a few games to go!
yes i think SAF & Mancini should be saying those things & i would do the same if i were them.
but thats because its a realistic target.
spurs winning the title this season was hugely unrealistic & was never going to happen.
i dont see the point in setting unachiveable aims. thats just setting your own team up for failure & disappointment!
this team & manager arent even close to be title winners.
surely the proof is in the pudding!
for example i wouldnt say team GB can win the basketball gold.
thats just plain silly.
im negative as a fan i know! but i would be positive as a manager. but not over the top & unrealistic with aims & positiveness (if there is such a word?).
i think spurs aim with this team & manager should be top 4, not title winners.
half a season is not enough to change my views on that.
just as equally im not going to say we are relegation material or a bottom half team because of our performances & pts tally this yr.
john, if u go off half a yr then surely u think we are a bottom half team? because u think we are title challengers due to our 1st half of a season?
let me guess, the concept changes now! i understand u will say no because u have to take into consideration the 1st half of our season. so equally u have to include our 2nd half.
Result's bad, but performance's still good? hummm, not so sure about that. We still dominate most game's posession wise, but now there's very little forward play. It's a lot of sideway's and backward passing with little movement up front. Take the QPR game, how many time's did we see Bale on the left, lay the ball of to Modder's or BAE, then go haring of to the middle instead of running into space on left for the return ball like that trio were doing earlier in the season? And the same when Lennon came on, he and Walker one giving the ball, the other staying where they are, waiting for a short pass back. Then you've got Bale and Lennon swapping side's, and cutting inside toward's a packed defence and trying to score through a sea of leg's..We have become so predictable team's find it easy to defend against us. Ade, although at time's work's hard is a very poor finisher considering he's a £25m, £175,000 a week player, and is no-where near worth that amount. ok, he has a good assist record, but he's not there for that, and in my opinion, Crouchie did pretty much as he does, just not with the pace. Defoe has never been a team player, and does not have a poachers instinct, needs the ball at his feet, find space and get a shot away,to score, other than that, offer's very little to the team. I also think we have to many who want's to be the hero instead of playing with intellegence, Parker, trying to make the run's Modder's should be making, but not knowing what to do when he finds himself in the penalty area, cant see a little lay off to someone better placed. Dont like to say, but that's where the Arse are better, not greedy. So IMO our possesion is giving a false impression that we are still putting in good performance's. Harry keeps saying " we battered them ", but the only thing we are battering is the defender's shins trying to score through nonexistant space... width, width, width pleassse.
"If you honestly believe that when a team is 3rd and on a better run of form than the two teams above them, the manager shouldn't be telling the team that they have a chance for the title, then that is up to you. It isn't my idea of what a manager should be doing."
u still dont get it john. i wouldnt say they would or wouldnt. id say lets take it 1 game at a time, do our best & give our all, & see what happens. i never said id tell the boys as manager "we cant win the league". u made that up, just like u make up a lot of other stuff.
u dont have to mention the title or stuff like that.
& its become apparent that all the title talk has had a huge negative impact.
weight of expectation
too much pressure
arragance & complacancy
feeling of failure & disappointment as u realise u wont win title & your target quickly tumbles lower & lower.
this is shown on the pitch with players looking downhearted & lacking any fight.
again, all my opinion before someone says this isnt a fact.
im not saying my way is right or wrong. but there are a lot of downsides to your theory.
there are lots of negatives too that.
& to sum up john- if i was harry, i would have just said we are playing really good stuff, the team is talented & we will take it 1 game at a time.
I'm still not convinced by the class gulf. The line between failure and success in the EPL to me is very fine. I saw Citeh yesterday, and they looked decidedly mediocre - but they still got a win.
As 'arry kept pointing out, we had 2pts from 8 games when he took over - and what did he do? The squad was largely as Jol left it - but we turned a corner and started to play and get results.
If you think that 'arry has taken us as far as he can then fine - and the effect of 'arry going may be the same as when Wendy Ramos went and 'arry took over - we could get a further boost. For me though, I'd rather give 'arry more time as I think stability works long term better than change - change as a method to boost performance seems to me to give a short fillip.
I like the way we have played under 'arry so far - I loved how we played in the CL. I like how the players have come on. Sandro (before injury) was looking good, Bale improved, Walker is becoming a good player, Livermore...and maybe Caulker will come back next season and start to earn his place in the squad.
I'd like the problem with the lack of goals in the second half of the season to be solved though irrespective of whether he goes or stays though....and maybe what I perceive as the VdV/Modric 'dilemma' resolved (which resolve the goal issue anyway)
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