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  • Joe Joe Nov 7, 2012 14:13 Flag

    Give AVB more time?


    All success is relative, therefore IMO SAF and Moyes have both been relatively successful. Had they both had the same resources, I might have a very different opinion of Moyes.

    It took Furgeson 3 years to win a trophy and 6-7 years to win the league, despite relatively high levels of investment and almost complete control of transfers, so making a judgement on AVB's future with us after 5 months is IMO to fast.

    AVB hasn't even had the chance to sign 'his own' players yet, as Levy seems to have decided who he'll have (do you get to interview those who work under you). Levy failed to sign Moutinho and Willian and therefore we don't have sufficient cover and Hudds is played because of it. I think we agree he just isn't good enough?

    I feel it is an unfair comparison looking at Chelsea as an example, they have invested heavily in everyone of the managers they have appointed, we can never invest to that extent and although it saddens me to say, the more you spend the more success you'll get- Look at what Citeh have achieved and the money they needed to spend to do it. Therefore Chelsea could and should expect more. IMO we are not and cannot compete with the Chavs.

    With the players we have at our disposal and the the amount Levy has spent, do you think we should be doing better? We are 1 point behind where we were this time last season. When we hadn't had the upheaval and our key players were all fit! (apart form Hudds, ha ha ah soz~)

    Do you think after 5 months AVB has been able to implicate all the changes he plans to? Do you think after 5 months the players we have brought in are likely to be playing to their full potential? I don't, I think it would be naive in the extreme to suggest that would be possible or likely.

    IF Levy was to take your advice and sack AVB now, what that would really demonstrate is that Levy isn't up to the job, if a chairman can be influenced that much by fans, then what hope is there for the club. We'd change managers once a month.

    No matter who the manger is, some fans will not like them.

    You can't keep all the people happy, all the time.

    What you can do is look at what has happened in the last 6-8 months and try and be realistic, I don't think you are.

    Had the Chavs stuck by AVB and invested the same amount of money as they have in Di Matteo,there is every chance they would be in the same position. The changes that AVB was trying to implicate (in with the new- out with the old) has largely been carried on by Di Matteo anyway, who has also had the benefit of Hazard, Oscar, Marin- we haven't come close to matching that quality.

    If we finish this season in 5-6th, then I think I'll still want us to give AVB another season.

    I don't think we can attract the very best players, as we cannot offer CL football (not AVB's fault) and we cannot match the wages of the Chavs, Citeh, Manure, Liverpool or the Goons (not AVB's fault).

    If we unearth another Luka shaped Gem then great 4th may become consistently achievable, otherwise we will be aspiring to finish 4th at best IMO.

    Sorry about the length (it can be a real pain :>{)), but there was a lot to address in your post.


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    • Joe,

      SAF has been "relatively" successful? Crumbs, you are a hard one to please. As I said, SAF's honeymoon was 25 years ago and things were very different then. Presumably AVB knew the score as far as transfers go when he took the job. If he accepted that Levy took control of that he has to live with it. And yes, not only do I interview everybody I work with I choose who gets hired (and who gets fired) and I pay them out of my pocket.

      I only used the Chavs as a comparison when you said that sacking a manager quickly showed a small club mentality. Yes, if you spend the level of money that the Chavs and Citeh have done the expectation is a lot higher to win something but that does not mean we cannot expect some sort of success does it? If thats the case every team other than Manure, Citeh and the Chavs may as well give up and go and start another league. Its not like we have not spent any money is it.

      "With the players we have at our disposal and the the amount Levy has spent, do you think we should be doing better? We are 1 point behind where we were this time last season. When we hadn't had the upheaval and our key players were all fit! " As I have said, its not about the points or where we are, its about how we are playing and the way AVB is going about it. We also had more than our fair share of upheaval last year Joe didn't we. Arry's court case, Arry dallying with the England job.

      I don't expect after 5 months to be ahead of manure, Citeh or teh Chavs, and I don't "expect" to be 6th necessarily but I do expect us to be playing attractive football and creating goal scoring opportunities regardless of injuries. Its a very long time since anyone accused me of being naive!!

      One thing is for sure, I am not expecting Levy to take my advice. I would not expect him to take a few hundred supporters disquiet as advice or even a few thousand. If it becomes the majority however, then yes I would expect him to take some notice after all its the fans that make a club isn't it?

      There is no evidence to suggest that had the Chavs stuck by AVB he would hav had the same success as Di Matteo. Terry and Lampard are still there and would not have been but more importantly his negative style of play was not working. He lost the team and consequently he lost the Board. And I can feel a de ja vue moment coming.

      So 5th or 6th and you will be ok with AVB having at least another year? So would I - surprised? You shouldn't be if you have understood where I am coming from. I would be happy with 5th or 6th (I would be even happier with 4th of course) but my concern and fear is that under AVB that is very unlikely and actually it will be much worse than 5th or 6th.

      We all want to unearth anouther gem - a couple of our existing players playing to or above their potential would be good enough to me. Do Pool and Ar$e pay more than us?

      Anyway, we could go round and round on this, it is unlikely that AVB will go any time soon so we will get the chance to see if you are right won't we. I sincerely hope you are.

      • 1 Reply to Sfer
      • Sfer,

        It seems that Levy decides who comes in and who leaves, as a manager of a team I wouldn't be happy with someone else building a team for me. I don't know if AVB was aware of Levys intetions to run the transfers, my point is that it must be tough to manage someone else's signings. It seems that AVB hasn't been involved with recruiting our most recent signings.

        I think both SAF and Moyes have been relatively successful, SAF has had masses of money to spend and has achieved what is expected of him, with the vast and deep resources he's had at his disposal. Moyes has IMO done exceptionally well with the limited resources he's had. I know people who believe SAF should have done better! I'm not sure how, but those people are out there. Thats hard to please!

        I agree we can expect some sort of success, IMO anywhere between 4-6th would be a successful season this year. 7th would be tolerable, but slightly disappointing. If we achieved 4th but played like stoke, how would you feel about AVB then?

        Agreed Harry put us through some fairly unease times, the difference being that out team was very settled and seemed to pick itself (much to my annoyance at times). Points wise I think we all have to be relatively content with where we are, I agree some of the performances have been below par, I partly expect that as we due to the amount of changes and injuries, but I do want that to improve, the sooner the better.

        I don't mean you necessarily are Naive, judging by the way you construct your arguments I don't think you are, IMO if anyone expected us to play well consistently after all that has changed and the number of people who are not available I don't think they are being realistic, too much has changed for us not to be affected.

        On a positive note, imagine how good we could be when we have a full selection and the team has gelled properly? We played superbly in the Manure game, albeit only fleetingly, but positive signs were there!

        One thing is for sure, Levy won't stand on ceremony or have any kind of sentiment, if he wants AVB gone he'll do it. I just wonder how many times Levy can remove a manager, pay them off and keep his job. If I were Joe Lewis I may be looking at the one constant in all the failed management stories.

        No there is no evidence to suggest AVB would have turned it round at the Chavs, but he wasn't afforded the time and he clearly rubbed one or two of the old boys up the wrong way. Had he had Hazard, Oscar, his approcah may have been very different. Maybe because he had been involved with the club at a much more minor level in the past the players struggled to respect him and he struggled with their ego's, maybe!

        We are currently 5th despite some pretty poor/average performances, I'm expecting us to improve as the team become more acustom to each other and to AVB's ways and as some important players return.

        Liverpool and the Goons pay their squad players much more than we do, although we probably pay a similar amount to our 'best' players, the goons seem to pay more of them more money, if that makes sense. Hence the reason why they cannot move on their deadwood.

        Indeed this is becoming a written merri-go-round, still nice to have a good debate- ta.