Tottenham Hotspur Message Board
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Where's the sense in saying without Bale where would we be? We have him and if he's the one we need to rely on at the moment then so be it - what about Man U when Ronaldo was playing for them? Are we supposed to feel bad that we have such a great player in our team who can change games for us? Arsenal had it with Van Persie last season and got into the CL as a result - at our expense. If you remove Bale from the team then someone else would step up, that's the way it usually works. He wasn't playing that well earlier on in the season and yet we were still picking up points.
West Ham came at us last night after having two weeks off, fresh as daisies, whereas we'd had 2 Euro matches. We may have started poor and West Ham fought harder than us but the fact is we created the better chances, their GK having to make some extraordinary saves and we kept pushing to the end until we got the last minute thing of beauty from Bale.
As for the substitutions, Holtby was getting a real kicking out there in the second half and not able to influence the games. He'll learn that teams scrapping for anything in the PL will do that but until then AVB is right to ease him into premier league football the way he has been, so that he doesn't end up overcommitting, getting frustrated etc. Dembele gives us more presence in central midfield which is probably why he was kept on, but the fact he was taken off for a more attack minded Carroll minutes before our equaliser shows that knows what he's doing. It's not AVB's fault that there wasn't another striker to bring on. Livermore didn't do anything wrong when he came on and even had a hand in the winning goal, passing out from the edge of our penalty box.
Name me any one team in this year's premier league that has played consistently well over the course of the season. We haven't been playing that well and yet winning games as a result. Not all because of Bale - how about the performances of Lloris? Dawson? Walker's picked it up lately, Dembele against Man U, Lennon for the most part, Holtby giving teams someone else to worry about? Maybe we'll struggle towards the end when we're burned out and not finish in the Top 4. But if we are there, we would have deserved it - the table doesn't lie.
Popping in on this late, but with Tom Carroll getting the assist for the winning goal and Livermore being the player who passed to him I don't think bringing them on is a sign of a weak squad, I think it's the sign of a good academy.
Asking the question where would we be without Bale is a valid one in my book. Yes I appreciate we do have him but the emphasis is on relying on one player is dangerous and needs to be addressed otherwise, if we lose him through injury of him being tempted away, where are we then? Mid table as I pointed out and as was expressed in the press only today.
I asked the question, which other PL team relies so heavily on just one player and no one replied. You have pointed out that Arsenal did with RVP and that is probably the closet comparison BUT looked what happened when he was tempted away. They have struggled to replace him or score goals and to play to the sdame standrad. If anything you pointing out the RVP situation only goes to prove my point.
The difference between us and WHU was Bale. Other than that they did as well as us. Take Bale off and that would have been a VERY ordinary mid table clash.
So AVB takes playeys off because they are getting a "real kicking"? Are you serious? So, apart from th efcat that that happens in every PL game and the fact that the Ref would surely have done something igf th etreatment of Holtby was THAT bad, the signal to teams we play is "if you kick us we will take our best players off" is that it?
Carroll is more attack minded that Dembele!! Exactly how many goals has attack minded Carroll scored in the PL?Oh no, hold on, NONE. How many assists? no that is not a statistic that shouts out from anywhere. How many shots? Nope, not there either.
You don't win games because your goallie or center back plays well - you draw them at best. Carroll and Livemore have done nothing so far IMO to say that they are anything better than average PL players. Lennon was completely ineffectual until the last 20 mins and even then he managed just two half decent crosses. Adebyor did nothing at all apart from a header which some would say he should have do ne better with. He missed a sitter that Arry's missus could have scored.
And the table doesn't lie? Oh come on. Stat wise it doesn't but we all know that some teams deserve better that then get and others get too much.
At the end of the day we want the same things. The only thing that differs is how we see success being achieved. I don't think AVB is the man to do it and I don't think the squad is strong enough to do it. As always, we shall see!
I'm not so sure Bale is playing any 'better'. He is playing differently.
Bale got what, 10 and 10 assists last season. So far he has the edge on goals but few assists.
Bale may end up getting more than Ade last year, but he's been playing more as a striker than a provider.
Before we had known strikers getting goals and still some from midfield (Daffy and Ade got 28/12 goals/assists between them last season and so far have 12/3 this season - a major difference). Across the replacements for VdV-Modric (Dembele, Dempsey and Sig), so far we're getting enough goals/assists to compensate for their loss.
I'm still not sure though that Bale becoming the goalscorer rather than provider is the 'total' answer, but I think it has had a bearing on the goals scored by Ade/Daffy.
I still think we need the goals from Daffy coming back on form or Ade finding his. Bale's goals should be a bonus to us.
Oh well. AVB's problem.
Sfer - chill out man! I'm not here to argue, I take your points on board but think you're being harsh on us. Whatever you say about Arsenal without RVP, they still have a chance of qualifying for the CL again, and could even finish 3rd - if we falter and Chelsea (both are likely). What I meant as well is that we have Bale - for now - and he's been our best player so naturally our other players will look to him first for inspiration. Currently that's working.
Re Holtby getting a "real kicking", not saying he was kicked but I thought he encountered a more physical team than what he's probably used to and wasn't getting any joy in the second half. The ref wasn't offering protection and he ended up on his a*se a lot. So AVB substituted him for someone who is more used to the physical demands of the PL and what happened? He nearly scored with his shot that spilled onto the post when Ade then missed his chance, and afterwards did manage to score our equaliser - however scrappy it was he was there to put it away.
Re Dembele/Carroll - turn that question on its head, how many goals scored and assists created for Dembele? Not many considering he's had more game time but that's because he sits deep. He'd also been booked and had one or two moments where he could have got a second yellow, so taking him off for Carroll (rather than a defensive player) was the right move.
As for your argument on defence/goalie not winning games, not sure many Arsenal fans would agree with you given that they have not had a solid back 5 (including goalie) for years whereas the likes of Chelsea have had Cech, Terry, Carvalho, Cole and Man U have had Vidic, Ferdinand and Evra - and have won trophies. You can't say that Arsenal have been light in attacking options over the last 7 years while they still had Henry, RVP, Fabregas, Walcott etc.? Many feel it is that lack of a quality back line (+ goalie) which has cost them games, competitions, success.
Maybe some teams do deserve better, and if West Ham had the quality they we do (or Bale if that's the case) then they may have got that. Ditto for a whole host of other teams over the years. I support AVB at the moment, but I'm not sure on Levy - why no players in January again etc. etc. r