Tottenham Hotspur Message Board
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Outrageous JL, I'm hurt you think I'm abusive, I'll let Yahoo know what I think of that...
I think my point is (although I'm not really sure now), we're NOT the manager, we're fans. We don't have the experience or technical knowledge of the management - when we were shipping last minute goals I thought "that's annoying" not "he wants to be running more intellectually challenging activities at the end of training sessions to encourage players to remain mentally aware until the end of a match".
For a manager or a shareholder or accountant to say getting to the QF of a big trophy - or any trophy for that matter - while sitting in 3rd position is 'ruining a season' is one thing, as they will have a mathematical value of success. For a fan to say is it - to me - ludicrous; it's supporting with your head, not your heart, and seems to be too influenced by media and their coverage of The Best League In The World and The Only Important Cup Competition. Although I do have some awesome memories of CL games too...
However, I will concede to FACTUAL things - getting 4th is a better achievement than a cup isn't factual, but the squad clearout putting added pressure on some of the remaining players is. E.g. Lennon's already played 10 more games this season than he did last, whereas Bale's currently on 4 less, and if we don't get to EL SFs we've only got 8 games left, so he'd only have a few games difference.
If you're really interested, the player stats (games, not minutes played) are here: http://www.tottenhamhotspur.com/spurs/Team/Statistics.page?
Put it down to my senility and poor eyesight - I saw 'Rep...' and as it was the only Rep there - hit it (must have been at the 4 reply limit). I'll put on sack cloth and ashes until Christmas in penance.
As a fan though, don't you also want to see teams like RM or Barca at the Lane? What other chance is there of that apart from joining the big boys club?
What the hell though - have faith - we can do both....CL next season and a miraculous performance in Basle..Basel..Baal.... to get us through to the next leg in the Europa.
Glyphi, Holtby and Demsey are all going to shine in Bale and Lemmon's absence.
- 2 Replies to Jlock
Last year Redknapp didn't take the Europa seriously at all, which I was very disappointed with, and we still didn't make Champion's league, although through some unlucky circumstances. But we should have managed third given the points lead we had. I'm glad AVB is actually going for it in Europa. Other players could step up. All is not necessarily lost. COYS!!
Are you saying if we got to the QF of CL & ended 5th that'd be a good achievement, but if it happens this year with EL it's a poor result because of the level of the cup? Because I'm reading it as we want to be consistently in the top 4 and challenging for CL, which means we need to be able to play more games than we have this season.
Also, a good time to remember that when Livermore & Carroll came on against West Ham I'm sure many of us thought "is that all we've got on the bench?", but they were both involved in the build up to the winner; let's give them a chance before declaring the team dead, it makes us as bad as the Bale fixated commentators.
NBR....At last, a fan talking like a football fan and not like an accountant. I thought all fans got into football for the glory days when your club got to a cup final and you see your captain hold aloft the trophy. We had many a great european night in the previous version of the europa and no-one said it was a micky mouse cup then, even though it was third in line to the european cup and the cup winners cup. Even if we did finish regularly in the top four, I dont think we have owners who would pay top fees and wages for the top players, and would be more content to get by on players just about good enough to get top four . The sooner they make the winners of the domestic cups and the europa cup to join the league champs in the CL the better IMO instead of rewarding the failure of clubs who finish 2nd. 3rd and fourth. Still, I guess its the way of the modern game that some fans are more interested in taking part in a competition that only about eight clubs in europe have any chance of actually winning, and most of them have double or higher our ground capacity as well as rich benifactors who are prepared to spend fortunes. As a fan, give me a cup any day, and if by chance we ever get a squad of talented players good enough to win the CL through youth and astute buys then all the more glorious for an old fashion fan like me.
- 1 Reply to john
Isn't it all a trade off though throughout the season? Don't you adjust what you what based on what is attainable?
While we we a mid table team, winning a domestic cup would have been superb. But as soon as we started to regularly hit the European spots (which isn't that long ago) - and brought teams like the Milans to the Lane - isn't that reward in itself? It doesn't preclude going after a domestic cup, but surely the goal is now higher?
And whether we like it or not, the players all now cost a fortune to buy and in wages, so the domestic cups simply don't 'earn' enough (£100K for the League Cup and £2M for the FA Cup - and that is winning them) - to win the Europa is probably closer to £10M (given the match and round bonuses).
But for me, it is and isn't about the money. I want a team that plays well and with flair - and I want to see us 'prove' how good we are by playing the best teams. I'm not that impressed by winning the LC having beaten Barnsley, Coventry...on the way. I want to see us beat RM - and the only chance of that is getting into the competition where those teams play - and that is by invite only - you have to get 4th and above. And by virtue or earning that 'invite' you get more money that hopefully enables you to return next year with better players. All money based, I know.
So, yep, I want the glory of lifting a trophy - but I want the FA over the League Cup and the Europa over the FA and the CL over the Europa. And there's the dichotomy as do I want Europa at the expense of the invite to the CL? Aaaaarrrrrrrrgh. I want both! I want us to be hosting the top clubs next season in the CL. I'd like the glory of lifting the Europa. What is more beneficial to the club? I would guess the CL.
Confused? I am....