my point is neither carrol or livermore have given us any reason to expect them to do a real good job if needed. based on previous performances u would expect them to do an ok job but nothing more. id disagree with u on your definition of a supporter. i think it is someone who wants whats best for the club especially in the long term. if a player isnt good enough & hasnt potential to be good enough for us, then i want to get rid of him for the good of the club. whereas people like u & joe will carry on supporting them & saying keep them for no valid reason just because u think this will help. 1-this is bad for the club to keep players like 2-i know fans like u & joe have huge egos, but im sorry to tell u, u showing them support & faith wont make a difference. 3-the players dont read our posts so me typing come on hudd wont have any impact. 4-u get nowhere by being unrealistic. this team is clearly not good enough to win the europa & get top 4. so by saying it is & pretending we are is going to mean we fail at both. as a consequence we could end up losing the likes of bale & not attracting top players. but i guess thats worth it so u could say u were extra positive & u were a great supporter because u backed our boys to be able to win europa & get top 4. to me, fans like u & joe are cheerleaders. u cheer a lot & think u have an influence when u dont. u arent willing to do whats right for the club if it doesnt involve u cheering & waving your pom poms about & being positive.