• Arsenal Message Board

  • ME ME Apr 24, 2007 22:24 Flag


    Just read an article about how to reduce cheating in the Premiership.
    Some wrote "Only field English player".
    Others wrote " Don't let foreign players move".
    I hope the usual suspects aren't going to go on again about this being 'racist'!

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    • Yeah,punishment for a previous World Cup life!

    • As covered on another thread, your own english is not upto much either Chris. Still keep trying, I'm sure you'll master it someday.

    • he got banned at the World Cup in America for drugs so he was an absolute cheat.Everyone knows that.
      I suppose he's being punished now the little fat drug/alcoholic cheat!
      He was a cracking player though!

    • The question is, in the moment before Maradona jumped up and stuck his hand out over Shilton, what was he thinking?

      According to you, he was thinking "I am going to cheat and since nobody will do anything about it then I can just go ahead and handle the ball."

      But he was probably thinking, in the intense heat of the moment "I am going to do whatever I can to help my team win this game", which is what most people think in that situation. The majority of people do not set out to cheat. Cheating happens in the heat of competition when people do things instinctively.

      That is up to the referee to spot and take action against. Better referees are the solution, not getting some arbitrary blokes to review video tapes after the fact, with no appreciation for the pressure and situation of the match. All that will end up happening is players getting suspended left, right and center.

      The real solution in 1986 would have been for the referee to have seen the handball, red-carded Maradona and then gotten on with the game. Not for some video review body to suspend him afterwards.

      And Maradona still would have been a national hero had they suspended him afterwards. He scored the goals that beat England after all. Had they suspended him he would have been a martyr as well, and that's even more powerful.

    • Like I said, it is baloney, but how many times have we seen players who cannot quite reach the ball stick up their arm and at the last minute pull it away when they realise what they were doing? Sometimes they dont pull the arm away. Sometimes it could be intentional and sometimes it is instinctive. Maradonas was obviously intentional (he admitted it afterwards after all) but he could just as easily have said it was instinctive and who would have been able to prove, absolutely prove without doubt, that he was lying? And if you are going to ban someone from the biggest game of their life then you had better be sure that you have proof of intent.

      That is my point. It is all very easy to say cheaters should be banned etc etc, and I completely agree with it. But if it was as easy as just saying 'anyone who dives gets a one match ban', 'anyone who fakes injury gets two matches', 'anyone who uses intentional handball gets three matches', then it would be done. But it isnt that easy.

      Surely you remember your own playing days? There were loads of times when I tried to stretch the rules to get an advantage. I am sure all of us on these boards remember times when we 'cheated' to get an advantage. Sometimes it was extremely premeditated, but there were certainly times when it was just an instinctive reaction based on an instantaneous assessment of what was going on during the flow of play at that time. Players make those judgments all the time. Instant decisions. Should we ban people for that? How do you separate the instinctive from the premeditated? It is a hard thing to do.

      Where do you draw the line? If a player makes a bad tackle that results in an injury, that is cheating right? Should that player be banned? How do we know whether the player intended to hurt the opponent or not?

      I think it is far more important for FIFA, EUFA, or the Premier League to sort out the referees and start making them professional and accountable. Once referees are properly trained and have a standard guideline to follow I think a lot of problems will start to be sorted.

    • I don't mean a ban that lasts forever! Morelike a 1/2 or 3 match ban.
      In the World Cup,Champions League,etc this would mean possibly missing the final,semi final,etc.
      That would definitely make players think twice before blatently cheating.
      In Maradona's case he would have missed the rest of the tournament and not been a national hero because of getting away with cheating. I'm sure he would have considered it very carefully before doing it again!
      Eventually though he got banned in the 1994 World Cup for drugs! He didn't mind though because his cheating had made him a national hero!

    • Instinctive to punch the ball into the net because you can't reach it with your head?

      Not sure about that one...

    • But even in the Maradona case, had he known there was a risk that he would be banned, he would have said 'well, it was instinctive, I didnt mean to do it!!'. Complete baloney I agree, but once again there is that issue of intent. Should you ban someone for an instinctive reaction?? That is the trouble with the use of video after the fact. I agree with your example of Rivaldo in the WC, and to that you could add the guy who got Laurent Blanc banned in 98. In some cases the intent is obvious. But where do you draw the line? Who decides where the line is drawn? Will you end up just banning everyone?

    • I agree but the blatent things seem to go unpunished.
      I mean Rivaldo in 2002 Worlc Cup fell down holding his head when a ball was thrown at his feet.
      He got a little fine but was allowed to play in the next game.
      The other player got a red card.
      These are the example that need to be punished or else it makes a mokery of everyone who saw the game/the incident and the punishment.
      It's bad when the innicont party comes off worse!
      Maradona v England in 1986(hand of god)!
      What would happen now? I bet FIFA would let him play in the next game although the innocent party(beaten team) are on the plane home! it makes cheating worthwhile when nobody is punished for such blatent actions!

    • Interesting idea.

      On the subject of proving intent, I agree it may not be full proof, but surely the percentage of decisions being corrected will improve or at least be higher than presently? Will it be any worse than the current method of punishment? The fact players will KNOW that their actions will be scrutinized if controversial would surely act as a deterrent to a certain extent wont it?

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