General Message Board
It's right what Nigel Mansell say's about Jenson Button, there's more to racing than partying.
Drivers don't seem to have to fight to get where they should be nowadays.
They have it all to early, not like the old day's, you can't say someone like Mansell had it easy, he got there by being a pure racing driver and having the guts to carry on when things didn't go right.
Button will never win another race.
Mansell is and always will be the best British racing driver.
- 1 Reply to Alex
This is about seven years out of date. Button was a partier at the start of his career, but he's pulled himself together now and is a serious professional racing driver. All drivers like to go to parties, of course, but there haven't been complaints or questions about Jenson's commitment in years.
I personally think that the problem lies with teams crying foul everytime some other team comes up with something new, in their cars' technology...
It seems to happen every other year now.
Everytime you will hear people tell you that such and such a technology would give one particular team with an unfair advantage. So the FIA comes up with more and more restrictions as to what engineers can develop. I see it as a major bummer for the sport. Was it Williams/Renault that came up with computer-controlled active suspensions? After a while i believe they were banned cause every other team #$%$ and #$%$ (and, you know, it's always good to possess another team's technical documents cause then you know what to #$%$ about!).... And i think every team is the victim of this attitude, noone wants to play along loose rules.
It's sad because it's really preventing labs to come up with revolutionary technologies.
In the meantime whatever they were allowed to improve over the years has greatly improved!!! the braking power alone, the speed at which you can shift gears up or down. Acceleration? From what i read and hear, F-1 cars now are another category altogether from what they used to drive in the 80s.
PS: If you want to have F-1 with everything stripped out, there's always Formula Renault, or Formula Ford.... even Karting is a blast, seen those videos of Senna, Prost and others racing karts indoors in Paris? Epic stuff. Highly recommended.
by stripping the technology i mean removing the systems that have been developed such as you say, new brakes, traction control, active suspension
these systems exist and have been applied
if formula one is the pinnacle and the engineers are the best in the world start giving them new parameters and allowing them to develop brand new ways and systems would give more to the car industry than developing the same systems further, the car makers can do that and do as the f1 technlogy has to be re-applied for road use due to requirements including servicability, mileage etc
max mosely made a start by banning exotic metals and other exotic materials, now lets go another stage and let these engineers show what there made of
Thats a very well structured argument and i can see what you mean. I guess what we all want is a blend of the technical brilliance of the modern era and the raw racing of earlier generations.......F1 has to be near the forefront of technical development but maybe more innovation should be allowed, after all it is a spectator sport and should cater for those needs also.
Ok, you have a point as far as "faster" goes...yes, at some point in F-1, cars did go much faster, and the average speed on the track was much higher than today's.
After the death of Senna, there were another couple of crashes the same year (one in Monaco i believe), with one crash costing the life of another pilot, forgive me if i forgot who it was (one of you has mentioned it in another topic on the board, i believe it was williamsrenaultfan) , so the FIA decided to slow down the tracks, adding new chicanes etc...some of us thought it would kill the sport and the entertainment value, which i think is false. Cars have traded speed for acceleration, and now with much more limitations in an engine's output (cylinder size, rpm, etc) what we see is engine makers working around those limitations to have cars that take advantage of acceleration/rpm ratios, gear ratios, and aerodynamics (let's not even mention tyre technology). See what kind of dramatic changes are brought about by aerodynamics at each and every new GP... Now we hear much more about downforce than before, hot air/cold air streams when cars take eachother over etc etc...
Saying that we should go back to the old days means that we should have F-1 very similar to IndyCar - yes Indy can be fun to watch and yea they go much faster but an F-1 car would TRASH an Indycar any day of the week around monaco or nurburgring...
With slower tracks and more limitation in engine output/size/weight what we have here in F-1 is a bunch of cars that are much crazier to drive as far as acceleration goes, as much on straights as on corners... See how much goes into setting a car for a particular track... you will see that technology goes a long way, and this is how i personally want F-1 to remain, not just a bunch of go-karts with fat engines and less and less technology. So OK, you are probably right, F-1 cars were HELL to drive in the 80s and early 90s, on videos it looks crazy and bumpy and even suicidal!!! but im not sure today's cars can be called "slow" either!
Also, F-1 drives car engineering technology in today's cars...new brakes, traction control, active suspension, etc...without F-1 we would still be driving cars from the 70s (that break down all the time). Maybe some don't like the mix of hi-tech in F-1 but that's the name of the sport. It's not just about the engine or the pilot, it's the whole team, pitstop strategies included.
If you don't want hi-tech in the mix then there are other motorsports, GT racing being one of them?
Id have to disagree with you Jonathan, although the cars are faster that doesn't make them harder to drive. I would bet a World War 1 bi plane was a lot harder to control than a modern F16 fighter for instance. And my modern performance car is a lot easier to drive than a much slower 60s sports car.
The cars of the 80s and early 90s were real handfulls and the drivers even had to change gear themselves! Also, the power of the mid 80s cars was almost twice that of a modern F1 car with the turbo at full bore, without traction control, stability control, auto gearboxes, anti stall devices etc.
I suggest you watch an F1 tape of the 80s or 90s and then (if you can stay awake long enough) watch a modern F1 race. If afterwards you honestly think F1 has progressed then will will have to agree to disagree.
"lets strip off the technology and make them more rugged and make the teams and manufacturers start again by finding new systems and methods"
That has got to be the stupidest thing i have read on this board...
Right, let's just go backwards in technology to make people like you happy?
this is F-1, u dont like them cars being faster and more difficult to drive than before, then go and watch go-kart like schumi!!!!
Yes they are more difficult to drive than before, the Mansells and Damon Hill's can talk all they want but they cant lap THAT car like they used to in the early 90s, regardless.
Prost has spoken about this not long ago, giving a lot of credit to Hamilton for driving such a powerful car so well. F-1 cars are not your usual Golf GTI buddy... they go faster, they are lighter and corner much faster than they used to even just 4 years ago.
Nigel Mansell was good no doubt about it but so was Hill ,Moss, and the great Jackie Stewart. Button would be on the podium if he were driving a Mclaren. Actually I think that next year he will replace the Spaniard who is obviously not a team player,typical of Europeans. I cant remember when I last wanted a Brit to win so much.Not since the Daman Hill Schumacer races.Look what Michaael did to hill.Deliberately ran into him to stop him winnin the championship.Typical European.Methinks that Alonso is acronic whiner and cant stand the thought that this rookie is as good as if not better than him.Cheers,Leslie
Nigel Mansell is and always will be the best, he made F1 worth watching in 80's and 90's, and the way he took on the yanks in Indy Car was awesome.
There's only a few drivers you could call pure racing driver and i would put him on top of the list that includes Senna, Schumacher.
I was there when Nigel won at Silverstone and i have never known an atmosphere like it, it was well worth the money.
As for the Masters it just proves how good he was, it's a pity Senna isn't still with us what a race that would be.
- View More Messages