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I am confused. It's my understanding that typically, stealing is a more severe crime than receiving stolen goods.
Wasn't it Ferrari's Nigel Stepny who stole the information from Ferrari? And wasn't it McClaren's Mike Coughlin who received the stolen information?
So if Ferrari employed the fellow that stole the info that led to this huge fiasco, where is their fine? Why do they still have constructor's points? There has always been a feeling that Ferrari is favored within F1, and this case certainly adds to that suspicion.
A Ferrari employee stole the information. A McLaren employee received it. I do not believe that Ron Dennis knew about it, just as Ferrari claims ignorance of having the information stolen. It would seem to be that if Ferrari receives a pardon for not knowing, so should McClaren. And vice versa...if McClaren is penalized, so should be Ferrari.
Perhaps I am not fully aware....has it been proven that Ron Dennis knew this was going on? Or has it been proven that Ferrari didn't know what was going on?
if i were a mclaren guy and i have all those info and details regarding specifics from ferrari,i won't make a replica of what they have,i would use the info to make a better one for myself..that's why you can see a replica,but you can use it to make a better one...got it..
Well actually its very simple..............
1) Stepney STOLE the information - therefore HE should be punished in the legal system.
2) In this instance Ferrari have done nothing wrong - the information was stolen FROM them.
3) McLaren obtained the information and USED it, therefore they are just as guilty as Coughlan for obtaining it in the first instance.
So, simple - Ferrari did nothing wrong, therefore are un-punishable, McLaren USED the stolen information KNOWING where it came from - therefore got the penalty that went with it.
The question should be - where is the punishment for the McLaren drivers? It is they who benefit most from the use of this information - yet they get away free??
- 4 Replies to B2a
May I ask in what way it has been proven that McClaren has used the information?
I am asking because I don't know the answer, not to provoke. I have yet to hear how the stolen information influenced a change in design that benefitted the car and drivers and team.
Or is it just having the information crime enough?
Regardless, I hate that this happened and created a dirty feeling within the sport. It takes away some of the fun of watching!
if the FIA clarifications makes only assumptions and speculation as you say then its a safe bet that Mclaren will appeal the punishment will be scrapped and Mclaren will come clean... but untill that happens(but i strongly doubt that Mclaren will appeal), Mclaren are GUILTY AS CHARGED. End of the story.
please read what i wrote...read carefully...before u start typing your nonsence rebutal.....i am fully aware of who they are, what they did was not proven to be in the knowledge of the whole McLaren team only as speculated and assumed by FIA... FIA acted based on these speculation and assumption.. but the people actually with the data are the 4. PDLR & Alonso incrimated themselves with their own emails... Just because they are employees of McLaren, McLaren have to take responsibility, but does not make McLaren guilty of using Ferrari technology. That guilt can only be proven if u strip a part the McLaren car and see which part is the same as Ferrari's. Proof must be without doubt before you pass judgement. The FIA clarifications makes alot of assumptions and speculation.
Did PDLR and Alonso named others they communicated the data to within McLaren? If they are honest and truthful, why not name everybody they spoke to ar work with to test the ferrari data!
You`re either mentally unfit or you speak with the nationality googles on.
Just incase you didnt know(and i`m seriously starting to think that you dont have a clue who they are from what you wrote on the other topics as well): Coughlin = McLaren's chief engineer, De La Rosa = Mclaren`s test driver and Fernando Alonso = Mclaren`s race driver. THESE 3 GUYS ARE PART OF THE MCLAREN TEAM which you consider inocent.
Pretty naive to think that only Fernando and Pedro used the stolen data and Hamilton, Ron Dennis and other Mclaren engineers are completely clean. They weren't published cos they decided to cover it up til the end unlike Fernando and Pedro.
One thing you can be sure of is... if Mclaren consider themselves not guilty, they will appeal and eventually if you logic is valid(valid my ass) Mclaren will come clean. But seems to me that Mclaren dont have any intention to appeal the verdict that basically branded them "CHEATS".
But untill that happens my "friend" untill a court of low proves that Mclaren are not guilty(if they ever appeal), everyone(except you and few other "fanatics") will see Mclaren as CHEATS.
Stepny, Coughlin, De La Rosa and Alonso should be all fined USD25million each for having knowledge and using stolen material. And banned for life. Is the McLaren car the same as the Ferrari car in design and parts? I think not.Thus McLaren the company is not at fault, the above individuals are.
- 1 Reply to arman a
As you just said it yourself "USD25million each for having knowledge and using stolen material" the emails published proved that Alonso and De La Rosadid run tests with Ferrari`s data.
Do you really think that Alonso and PDLR could run those tests just the pair of them without Ms Integrity(and the whole Mclaren team) knowing about it? Unless their intention was to run them in a PlayStation simulator ofcourse :) (or maybe in Alonso`s back-garden). Is that what you really think?
This is becaming ridiculous.
Read the "FIA release reasons for McLaren expulsion" at http://www.planet-f1.com/story/0,18954,3213_2728560,00.htm before making making stupid comments.
Did Mclaren gain in performance too much, a little or nothing doesnt really matter... what matters is that its been proven that they used Ferrari`s data. This is like playing Poker, knowing what cards your opponent have. Can you honestly say that you dont gain an unfair advantage in this case?
Mclaren`s CHIEF DESIGNER, TEST DRIVER and Alonso himself are proven to be implicated and have used the stolen data and i doubt they could run those tests without Ron Dennis`s knowledge/approvement. I dont think anyone expected Ron Dennis to make a confession that he was aware and that he has permited the use of the stolen material.
I have to admit tho, maybe the woman that does dishwashing in Mclaren`s kitchen wasnt aware of the dirty business that was going on... does that mean Mclaren should not be punished?
A very fair statement. I tend to agree that it should be the individuals that played a role in the espionage that should be punished.
My reservation/concern lies in the area of the severity of punishment that team McClaren received was a blanket punishment that captured a lot of innocent people...the mechanics and support staff who likely had nothing to do with it. Thanks for your thoughts.
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