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  • hornyb66 hornyb66 Sep 17, 2007 05:56 Flag

    Todt not accepting constructors title

    And the latest news is even though it is mathically impossible -now mclaren have had the points removed- for Ferrari to lose the constructors championship he wont except it in case mclaren appeal -which would be heard before the Japanese gp- so why is that then- isnt he 100% sure the truth has come out or is he worried about something else coming to light?????

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    • Get your facts right quartinapintpot(better know as peewee cause of his small member) i do not defend mclaren with venom and enthusiasm as you put it i just think that the WHOLE TEAM should not be punished due to three prats(couglan,pedro and cry baby alonso) especially as in MAX'S own words that Ron Dennis has been completely honest and truthful throughout the whole affair and it was Ron himself who blew the whistle on the new evidence - also i am applauled by the way the FIA have dealt with this whole issue and the fact that they have let Ferrari get away with blue murder in the past and done nothing.
      I just want this whole issue closed and this season to end so we can finally start next season with a clean slate.
      And my mother is not the mclaren tea lady and you can post fun at me but dont cross the line by having a pop at the family.

    • Haven't seen the tea lady, but she's probably hornyb66 mother judging by the enthusiasm and venon he tries to defend McLaren with. If he gets that excited over McLaren you better be careful if you have an idea about interferring with her!

    • Now you've got my interest - has anyone seen the tea lady?

    • I have a sneaky idea that you are either give the Mclaren tea one or you fancy her like mad cause you keep going on about her. Let your childhood crush on her go and leave her alone to do her job giving out tea and biscuits and stop implecating her in spygate.

    • Fact one - Couglan had the plans and has admitted to it.
      Correct

      Fact two - Pedro tried out things from the plans on the simulator after liasing the info from couglan and has admitted it in his statement to the FIA.
      Correct

      Fact three - Alonso found out about the data through contact with Pedro via text and email but never used it and has admitted it in his statement to the FIA.

      Ofcourse Alonso didnt have to use the data himself, but Alonso ASKED Mclaren test driver to USE them knowing that the data was stolen from Ferrari. So Alonso is guilty.
      Lets suppose that Ron Dennis knew about Ferrari data and that he asked(or ordered) De la Rossa to test Ferrari`s weight distribution 1st on the simulator and then on the track.
      Does that mean that Ron Dennis is not guilty of using Ferrari`s data just because its wasnt him who tested the car on the track but it was De La Rossa? Its just stupid of you to think that way.

      Fact four -Ron Dennis knew nothing about Pedro's and Alonso's knowledge of the Ferrari plans until alonso tried to blackmail ron into letting out of his contract with it.

      - Ron Dennis knew nothing about Pedro's and Alonso's knowledge of the Ferrari plans? How can you say that this is a FACT? Just because Ron Dennis says so?

      Fact Five - It was Ron Dennis who phoned Max at the Fia and told him about the new evidence(which Max has amitted to) to which Max contacted the drivers offering imunity for testomony(Which I dont agree with).

      - Max admits that Ron Dennis phoned him, yes... but Max says that Dennis told him that: 'There's no information, there's nothing to come out. I can assure you that if there was something, Max, I would have told you'. Full article at http://uk.eurosport.yahoo.com/16092007/58/belgian-gp-mosley-questions-dennis-integrity.html And Max says: It was only when I got the list from the Italian police (showing) 323 SMS over a three-month period between (Mike) Coughlan and (Nigel) Stepney, (that I concluded) there had to be more to this.

      Fact six - The FIA cannot prove the info has been used on the car as ALL TEAMS must submit their plans before the season starts and any change would show up in scrutinering Which it has'nt.

      - FIA doesnt have to prove anything. The email conversations between De La Ross and Alonso shows that Ferrari`s data was being used.

      Fact seven -Not the whole team but Two members of Mclaren(couglan and pedro) have admitted using the info in the SIMULATOR and the third(alonso) has admitted to knowing about the info - proven in their statements to the FIA.

      - partially correct. The fact is that the Mclaren tea-lady was very disappointed that Ferrari dossier didnt contain any new Tea recipe and all the tecnical data data was of no use to her. She is part of the team right?

      Fact Eight - The FIA have done nothing to Stepney the one who started all this and are allowing him and Couglan to remain in the sport.

      - not sure about this. I read somewhere that FIA is waiting for the italian and british police to conclude their investigation before taking any decision about Stepney and Couglan.

      Fact Nine - When Stepney and Couglan went to honda offering their sevices including the ferrari data honda didnt report it to the FIA - it was Ferrari who did went they were contacted by the person from the photocopier shop but Honda go unpunished.

      - Stepney and Couglan wanted to get a job at Honda and Honda refused them. lol why should Honda get punished?

      Fact ten - The reason Mclaren were not kicked out of this season and the next even though thats was what MAX wanted to do he was out voted on this issue by 7 committee members who happen to be LAWYERS. Does that mean anything to you cause it does to me!!!

      - Meanwhile Bernie says that its those "LAWYERS" that wanted to kick Mclaren out but and he had to beg them not to do so.

    • Ok clever clogs where in the transcript does it say alonso USED the data. IT DOESNT!!!. The only one who has admitted to using or intending to use the data in a test on the simulator is PEDRO.
      Fact one - Couglan had the plans and has admitted to it.
      Fact two - Pedro tried out things from the plans on the simulator after liasing the info from couglan and has admitted it in his statement to the FIA.
      Fact three - Alonso found out about the data through contact with Pedro via text and email but never used it and has admitted it in his statement to the FIA.
      Fact four -Ron Dennis knew nothing about Pedro's and Alonso's knowledge of the Ferrari plans until alonso tried to blackmail ron into letting out of his contract with it.
      Fact Five - It was Ron Dennis who phoned Max at the Fia and told him about the new evidence(which Max has amitted to) to which Max contacted the drivers offering imunity for testomony(Which I dont agree with).
      Fact six - The FIA cannot prove the info has been used on the car as ALL TEAMS must submit their plans before the season starts and any change would show up in scrutinering Which it has'nt.
      Fact seven -Not the whole team but Two members of Mclaren(couglan and pedro) have admitted using the info in the SIMULATOR and the third(alonso) has admitted to knowing about the info - proven in their statements to the FIA.
      Fact Eight - The FIA have done nothing to Stepney the one who started all this and are allowing him and Couglan to remain in the sport.
      Fact Nine - When Stepney and Couglan went to honda offering their sevices including the ferrari data honda didnt report it to the FIA - it was Ferrari who did went they were contacted by the person from the photocopier shop but Honda go unpunished.
      Fact ten - The reason Mclaren were not kicked out of this season and the next even though thats was what MAX wanted to do he was out voted on this issue by 7 committee members who happen to be LAWYERS. Does that mean anything to you cause it does to me!!!
      There you go now find fault in that!!!

    • hornyb66 - "Therefore Alonso is only guilty of knowing about the plans not actaully using them"

      3.14 Mr Alonso replied at 12.31 that it is "very important" that McLaren test the gas that Ferrari uses in its tyres as "they have something different from the rest", and "not only this year. there is something else and this may be the key; let's hope we can test it during this test, and that we can make it a priority!".

      There`s a big diference between simply "knowing", "using" and/or incouraging or pushing the test driver of your team to "USE" the stolen data.

      Alonso is only guilty of "knowing" about the plans!!! Dont think so. Before coming to rushed conclusions you better give the FIA verdict another read in full not just "summarized versions" of it ;)

      As for "Are you totally thick or just stupid.", i dont get offended at all when it comes from you.

    • Are you totally thick or just stupid.
      FIA's view that the whole team is at fault for only one employee" is a direct quote from Max Mosley himself in his interview on tv and on radio and posted on may sites relating to formula 1 after the hearing last week. So thats not MY view its HIS but that maynot be the view of the whole FIA commision panel.
      Also FACT is that the info was only used in the SIMULATOR by pedro and not on an actual car as it would have meant changing items which would have shown up under scrutinairing due to the FACT that ALL TEAMS must submit details of the cars to the FIA before the season starts!!!
      Therefore Alonso is only guilty of knowing about the plans not actaully using them unlike Coughlan and Pedro.

    • "FIA's view that the whole team is at fault for only one employee actions that means that Ferrari are guilty because of Stepney."

      You say that "FIA's view that the whole team is at fault for only one employee" then explain me please how come FIA didnt punish Mclaren on the very 1st hearing a month ago when it was found out that Coughlan(1 Mclaren employee only) was in possesion of the Ferrari' data ???

      Thats prof that FIA dont punish a whole team just because of 1 employee wrongdoings.

      How exactly do you "define" a F1 team by your standarts ?
      Coughlan = CHIEF DESIGNER, De La Rossa = Mclaren TEST DRIVER, Alonso = Mclaren RACING DRIVER, are proved to have used the stolen data. Just because the cleaning staf at Mclaren wasnt aware of the Ferrari`s stolen data being used, it doesnt mean Mclaren are as a F1 team are not guilty(by the way... i`m quite sure, they dont even have access to any Mclaren car design information let alone Ferrari`s stolen data).

      With your logic, even if Ron Dennis was implicated(which i`m sure he is) even then you would have screemed "Mclaren are not guilty" because the woman that does dishwashing at mclaren`s kitchen wasnt told anything.

    • Jean Todt is not pleased with the result that was handed down by the WMSC / FIA. He believes that the drivers of McLaren should also have been punished because if team McLaren benefited in any way from the Ferrari documents in their possession then so did it’s drivers. How can only a portion of the team be penalized? Are not the drivers of a team part of the team? Jean Todt, by not yet accepting the Constructor’s Championship is hoping that McLaren will appeal this decision. In so doing, said parties involved will meet again in Paris in front of the WMSC / FIA. The possibility exists that further sanctions can be brought against McLaren, hence it’s drivers being penalized.

      • 1 Reply to Hansi
      • HELLO - the drivers got imunity from prosecution for their testamonies so even if Mclaren appeal the FIA cannot go back on that agreement.
        Also maybe todt isnt happy cause he knows that if mclaren do appeal it might also mean his team being done for bringing the sport into disripute as it was a Ferrari empolyee that started all this off and the FIA's stance is that THE TEAM is responsable for any employees cock ups.
        Also how does an employee manage to download all those pages off a company computer and send them to a rival team without no-one at ferrari noticing. They didnt realise untill someone in a photocoping shop contacted them and told them - Funny that cause i smell a massive rat and underhand dealing at Ferrari.

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