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  • arman a arman a Sep 18, 2007 01:24 Flag

    Points taken away based on SUSPICION.....


    Reuters: " I would have taken all the points away from Hamilton and Alonso on the grounds that there is a suspicion they had an advantage that they should not have had," said Mosley

    Isn't that ridiculous that you penalize and ban based on SUSPICION.. the above statement also implies that the McLaren Constructors points are taken away based on SUSPICION. In what court of law does SUSPICION makes you guilty?

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    • Thanks...
      You're absolutely right, it is brutal and we've seen it here in all of it's glory. Just glancing over some of the news this morning it's almost as if Jean Todt is daring McLaren to appeal. Let's call off the bulldogs and finish the season, that way we can somewhat enjoy what's left of it.

      Regarding the one team always winning...I'd love to see some other teams, not just McLaren fighting for the championship. I would have absolutely been okay with McLaren winning the championship! That's the beauty of sports. I was extremely disappointed when my team in the 2006 World Cup (Germany) lost to Italy but was able to talk to my dad afterwards and say that that was a great game and that both teams played well. It's the nature of the beast.

      Let's finish the season, cool off and start new next March and may the best team / driver win!

    • Mclaren is in possession of something that does not belong to them. Suspicion? Period.

    • I agree with a post further up: this is just out of hand.

      McLaren is punished because one employee, Coughlan, got Ferrari secret info.
      Surely Ferrari should be punished too, because one employee, Stepney, handed secret info to an non-authorised person.
      This info was LEAKED by a Ferrari employee, not stolen by a McLaren employee.
      On that front, they should either both be punished, or just call it quits.

      Did the cars or drivers take an unfair advantage from the info? Maybe, and this is the really important question. But banning McLaren and/or their drivers means that Ferrari and/or their drivers will take an unfair advantage the answer is actually no.

      Final question: how come both McLaren and Ferrari are allowed to race? They're in the middle of various court actions over a highly complex and shadowy affair, in which both seem to hold a part of the blame. Yet they still turn up every race weekend, and wipe the floor with more modest, but more honest teams who have no legal accusations against or emanating from them at this time. We're watching races without knowing if the results or points collected will stand.
      It's a sad sight, which is why I think Ferrari and McLaren should not be allowed to race until they sort themselves out.

      • 1 Reply to Flying Lobster 27
      • "Surely Ferrari should be punished too, because one employee, Stepney, handed secret info to an non-authorised person."

        just so I can be sure what you are saying.... Let's say soemone you trust, comes into your house steals something from you and gives it to someone else, that makes you guilty of something and you should be punished does it?
        "This info was LEAKED by a Ferrari employee, not stolen by a McLaren employee".
        Is not Coughlan guilty of receiving stolen goods?

        Coughlan and Stepney should go to jail. ( or they may end up dangling under Blackfriars bridge)

        McLaren disqualified from the 2007 championship. This would move everyone up the pecking order and the more modest teams you talk of get a bigger slice of the pie.
        Yes it would mean Ferrari get more money but i bet if it were Williams instead of Ferrari in that position it would be perfectly acceptable.

    • Oh my goodness! I can't believe you have an illogical logic. McLaren is in possession of something that does not belong to them and the fact that they have learned an opponent's plans and techniques. What have they done with the documents? Labeled it as rubbish? Oh common, you can think better! I suppose?

      • 1 Reply to A Yahoo! User
      • Everyone is saying McLaren was in possession of these documents...it was Coughan (or what ever his name is) that was found to have them at home...nothing has been proven that they were ever at the factory, Ron Dennis actually knew about them and nothing was found on the car...yes I suppose McLaren had to be penalized in some way by association but I think the FIA went too far...but everyone knows Mosley doesn't like Ron Dennis and he is a Ferrari man through and through also I think it is wrong that Ferrari gained quite a lot by it all...scrap this years constructor and drivers championship, that way no one gains anything

    • If you read the transcript thathas been released you will see that MClaren where told aboutthe weight distribution of the ferrari (which alonso said has made their cars quicker) also which laps the Ferrari's where pitting in and what air mix they use in their tyres as they used a different mix to everyone else. Now i want Lewis to win but you have to say that they have cheated to do it, not might of, but have!

    • "dude, we all read the transcript, no need to swear...all is only opinions here... am also not british, just a fan..."

      You may want to specify that you`re not "just a fan", you are a "mclaren fan"(hint.. is it really that dificult? username = mclaren8584). And your hunt for every single little and unimportant detail that may cast doubts wherever Mclaren is guilty or not, tells me that not simply a "mclaren fan" you`re a "mclaren fanatic".

      If you really read and understood the transcript can you answer these 2 questions please:

      1. Is it true that Mclaren employees were found on possesion of Ferrari confidential data? This is not a SUSPICION its a proven FACT.

      2. Do you know that the fact that Mclaren employees were found on possesion of Ferrari confidential data is a breach of FIA rules?

      For once, you may concide that Mclaren have really done something wrong here but FIA has been harsh on them or whatever.

      If you have posted something similar, then i would have given you some credibility but all you`ve done is posting the same message in 5 diferent topics playing around with some TYPOS that Max and Bernie have made on their 100 + interviews they had to give during last week.

      To me you seem clever enough to understand that FIA`s decision wasnt based in SUSPICIONS, but for some reasons that only you knows you keep beating the drum about a typo that Mosly said in an interview.

    • Okay, how many of the #$%$ and complainers have actually read the article located here:


      I understand, it's a long article and you may get lost in some of the big words that are used, but please try. If you're still having problems, you might just want to go here instead:


      What about this transcript says anything about SUSPICION? It proves that McLaren were aware of and did indeed distribute this information about within their confines! Based on readings from this very transcript, it all started in March of this year, the very month that the season started!!!!! And, before you go shooting off at the mouth, read the #$%$ transcript!!

      I know, I know....the British have very little to hold onto sports wise. McLaren is a British team and Lewis Hamilton is a Brit. Thank God for them because if it weren't for them they'd have little to talk about. Lord only knows they've got a #$%$ soccer team, World Cup 2006 only proves that! Wait, who won in 2006? Oh! That's right, Italy won. Italy = Ferrari, that's why they hate Ferrari so much! Italy wasn't my team but even our 2nd team would have beaten the English. BTW, my team finished 3rd, just in case you were wondering.

      Back to the matter at hand. The season is a wash. Ferrari shouldn't except the Constructor's Championship just because of merit. Hamilton / Alonso (whomever) will win the Drivers Championship but will forever be followed by an asterisk (*). Their win will all be based on whether they benefitted from acquired information that belonged to Ferrari.

      • 1 Reply to Hansi
      • dude, we all read the transcript, no need to swear...all is only opinions here... am also not british, just a fan...what i quoted was said by mosley as reported by reuters... he said based on "suspicion", as i know is suspicion does not make u guilty...you can disagree all you like and so can i...just opinions...

    • They may be SUSPICION whether they had drawn an advantage or not, however what is a FACT is that McLaren posessed and used stolen Ferrari Intellectual Property. Are you forgetting this? This is a serious violation of any sport, including F1.

      Furthermore, don't you think Ferrari would have liked to have had all 780 pages of McLaren's 2007 F1 plans and when each McLaren driver would have stopped to refuel in Australia?

      Of course its an advantage, don't be daft. Anybody who has participated in any sport would know that - knowing your opponent's entire game plan is obviosuly an advantage.