General Message Board
I'm dismayed at the decision to exclude Lewis Hamilton from the Australian race results. He drove a fabulous race in a poor car and deserved at least 4th place. I don't really see a problem with what happened in Australia, the stewards initial assessment was correct as he did nothing actually illegal even giving a place back that wasn't required. As a protest I am not only going to boycott the TV coverage for the remaining races but the sponsors on all the cars until Max Mosely is ejected from the FIA. I bet if every disenchanted F1 fan did this he wouldn't last for long. Come on Red Bull, give Max Mosely wings (but no parachute!!)
You are nieve if you think lewis did nothing wrong. why did he lie when asked if he was told to let trulli pass? if he had just told the truth he would have been awarded 3rd place anyway because that is where he ended up following trulli's mistake. as all 4 tyres left the race track trulli made a mistake allowing hamilton through therefore hamilton was entitled to 3rd place, this is not what caused the penalty, it was however the following conversation with the stewards where lewis was asked 'were you told to let trulli through' and he replied 'no' which was a stupid thing to do because as soon as the stewards listened to the radio message they realised that he had lied. this is the reason for the penalty - which was explained during the build up to the malaysian grand prix - although you wouldn't have seen it because you are boycotting the tv coverage. more fool you i say.
- 1 Reply to Emma
pinkracer, the question to LH about
"where you instructed to let trulli through"
is very vague, as I have said before, the answer to that question is a yes and a no,
Yes, the team told me to let Trulli through.
No, I was not instructed - by the fia - to let Trulli throught.
The stewards should of been clear, they werent.
You use honour in this context incorrectly the meaning of honour actually is Honesty and respect. It seems this may be why you are having difficulty in trying to get your point across in a debate about lying and the standards thereof. I think you have got mixed up with the saying Honour among thieves which in fact holds true the meaning of honour as thieves have honesty and respect between themselves. This lying debate is between Lewis and David having accountability (which means to explain ones actions) to the public. I am very sorry you thought I was having ago at you when I was referring only to the point about lying and nothing else as I thought your comments were about lying. I admit I ignored your comment about dishonourable as that is a different debate altogether and funnily enough I would agree if this was a situation solely within the team. I would expect Honour to be at its heart in the context you have used it. I am not gullible enough to ignore the fact that both lied and to excuse David and forgive Lewis because he was to lie again and take all the blame. I would actually be better persuaded by mitigating circumstances and a belief that everyone deserves a second chance.
I have tried on several occasions on this forum, to explain the difference between lying and not accepting accountability for your own actions.
Nobody so far seems to understand.
This leads me to believe that few people today have any idea of the meaning of honour.
I shall try for one last time to show the point.
Dave Ryan lied, Lewis Hamilton lied, I lie frequently.
But honour is about accepting the blame even if you are following orders. Honour would have been to save Dave Ryan's skin by not telling the whole truth.
Is that difficult to understand?
I think we both agree about the lying however I don’t agree that Lewis was solely to blame for the lie and the evidence for this is in the FIA Statement in which both Driver and Team Director both misled the stewards at the meeting with the same answer to the question asked. Therefore both are equally to blame.
What should have happened was both Lewis and David should have held the Press Conference together and apologised for it. The fact that David was sent home does not absolve him of his responsibility. Nor do I agree he should be sacked he should have the same equal opportunity to face public humiliation and given the same chance to redeem himself
In your last statement you have implied that two lies make a truth Lewis was to lie again about David’s involvement and therefore he will be forgiven but of course in reality David will have lied and been exonerated. This would just be hypocritical if (as many have said before) lying is deplorable and should not be tolerated, however it’s okay if you are a long standing member of the team and someone else takes the blame for it.
Having said that why should it be perfectly okay for David Ryan to Lie and receive support from so many people and yet Lewis Hamilton receive so much abuse. If the standard about lying is so important, then apply the same standard to all past, present and future liars.
I would also include the governing body in this and equal punishment should be given to those who have misled the Fans into thinking the results will be the same after a week.
I gave Lewis Hamilton some support in my own mind for everything that has happened to him up to now.
I could have forgiven him the lie if he owned up to it and was contrite.
But saying that he was following orders from a member of his own team. To try to re-direct the blame onto someone else is dishonourable.
The FIA may well be to blame for the mess up, and may be victimising Hamilton and the Maclaren team, they may even be punishing inconsistently, but that does not mean that Hamilton is not responsible for his own actions. And it doesn't mean that he can dump his responsibility onto a team member, even if it is true.
That's my opinion.
One other point I would like to make, I remember last year when McLaren asked the Race Director if the cutting of the chicaine by Lewis and the yeilding of the place gained was okay I distinctly heard what I can only describe as a Lie because after the race he was penealised yet I haven't as yet seen any vilification of that person anywhere in the media calling into question his integrity in quite the same manner as Lewis Hamilton has been. I don't condone lying however until everyone in the sport is treated fairly you create this environment where the only way to get justice is to mislead and withold information this in my opinion is the Fault of the FIA.
It's your loss, it's not going to make any difference to them, and you'll probably end up missing one of the most exciting seasons in ages.
If McLaren acted dishonestly, then they get punished. They accepted the decision and won't protest it. It may have been an honest mistake or lapse in memory, but rules were broken, so there you go.
One question - if this were happening to Trulli instead, would you have the same reaction?
- 3 Replies to Adam L
I appreciate that when the rules are broken there should be a punishment. However my gripe is that these punishments are not always consistant, especially where McLaren are concerned. Last year there were so many poor decisions by the race stewards that McLaren now feel on the back foot at every race. This incident is the direct result of this defensive attitude. I agree that Trulli shouldn't be punished for something he didn't do but feel that Lewis earned the 4th place fairly.
Lewis never should have given the position back, but he did. That was a decision made by the team based on their understanding of the rules. Since he gave the position back, the final on track positions should stand.
He was asked "Were you instructed....." This is a very open question. Instructed by whom? The FIA / Race Stewards, which is how I would interpret the question considering its source, or my team?
This whole incident has been VERY poorly handled from the time it happened right through to now.
Maybe I'll have to start watching NASCAR instead.