Liverpool Message Board
I've been reading these kinds of comments on here for a while now and it set me thinking what the truth of the matter actually was:
LFC Sofa Supporter: "Rafa is in his 3rd yr and doesn't have nowhere the funds SAF has so if we get 2nd spot that'll make me proud."
jk80jk: "joke in the transfer market?
Give him the sort of money Ferguson has had and I think you'll find if he could get the players he actually wants he'll be fine....
Other than Torres we haven't been able to compete with the likes of man utd and Chelsea in the transfer market... simple as that mate..."
So here are the spending records of both Liverpool and Manchester United since the begining of the Benitez era:
27/5/04 Alan Smith £7m
11/6/04 Gabriel Heinze £6.9m
31/8/04 Wayne Rooney £29m
Total spent: £42.9m
26/5/04 Danny Pugh £1m
29/7/04 Nicky Butt £2.5m
20/8/04 Diego Forlan £2m
31/1/05 Eric Djemba-Djemba £1.35m
Total Received: £6.85
United net spent: £36.05m
Running Net Total: £36.05m
1/7/04 Djibril Cisse £14m
27/7/04 Josemi £2m
1/8/04 Javier Luis Garcia £6m
1/8/04 Xabi Alonso £10.5
13/08/04 Antonio Nunez, £2m
13/1/05 Fernando Morientes £6.3m
21/1/05 Scott Carson £0.75m
Total spent: £41.55m
20/5/04 Emile Heskey £6.25
10/8/04 Danny Murphy £2.5
13/8/04 Michael Owen £10m
Total Received: £18.75m
Liverpool net spent: £22.8m
Running Net Total: £22.8m
1/6/05 Edwin van der Sar £1.2m
5/7/05 Ji-Sung Park £4m
19/7/05 Ben Foster £1m
4/1/06 Nemanja Vidic £7m
10/1/06 Patrice Evra £5.5m
Total spent: £18.7m
4/8/05 Philip Neville £3.5m
8/8/05 Kleberson £2.5m
Total Received: £6m
United net spent: £12.7m
Running Net Total: £48.75m
4/7/05 Jose Reina £6m
4/7/05 Mark Gonzalez £4.5m
13/7/05 Mohamed Sissoko £5.6
20/7/05 Peter Crouch £7m
12/1/06 Daniel Agger £5.8m
Total spent: £28.9m
16/6/05 El-Hadji Diouf £4m
23/8/05 Milan Baros £6.5m
Total Received: £10.5m
Liverpool net spent: £18.4m
Running Net Total: £41.2m
Tim, this is a good thread and I almost regretted joining it as I thought I might finally get turned over by a manc.......
However, pal, I now have the info to kick some serious manc ass.
You have the most EXPENSIVE team in the WORLD. Forbes have compiled a list of the top 25 most valuable (expensive) teams and you TOP it !!
1. Man UTD = $1.5b + 84% debt to value ratio
11. Liverpool = $454m + 18% debt to value ratio
Liverpool not even in the top 10 !!
So put aside the odd 20m and discuss the BILLION DOLLAR difference in team value :-)
- 2 Replies to A Yahoo! User
Man United Weekly Wage bills must be somewhere in the millions you pay half your players 100+k a week.
How many Liverpool players you think get that? 2-3? if that.
You look at the transfer figures and they only tell you one story, Plus it costs more to buy a player already on a "deal" with the club.. so that also takes an account into a transfer figure.
throwing Money figures at us and saying "you spent 70 million" this season proves nothing we've also sold players making us what 33 million according to you. So what we really spent this season is.. 37 million?
Your also no taking into account the youth + Res Players cash spent.
So basically in the bigger picture your facts prove very little.
31/7/06 Michael Carrick £18.6m
Total spent: £18.6m
3/6/06 Jon Obi Mikel £12m
15/6/06 Jonathan Spector £0.5m
14/7/06 Sylvain Ebanks-Blake £0.3m
28/7/06 Ruud van Nistelrooy £10.3m
Total Received: £23.1m
United net spent: -£4.5m
Running Total: £44.25m
22/6/06 Craig Bellamy £6m
1/7/06 Gabriel Paletta £2m
26/7/06 Jermaine Pennant £6.7m
18/8/06 Dirk Kuyt £9m
31/1/07 Alvaro Arbeloa £2.6m
Total spent: £26.3m
13/06/06 Zak Whitbread £0.2m
25/5/06 Fernando Morientes £3m
4/8/06 Antonio Barragan £0.675m
8/8/06 Djimi Traore £2m
30/8/06 Neil Mellor £0.5m
31/08/06 Jan Kromkamp £1.75m
??/10/06 Chris Kirkland £3.5m
18/1/07 Darren Potter £0.25m
22/1/07 Stephen Warnock £1.5m
Total Received: £13.375
Liverpool net spent: £12.925m
Running Total: £54.125m
??/??/07 Tomasz Kuszczak £2m
1/7/07 Owen Hargreaves £17m
2/7/07 Anderson £17m
2/7/07 Nani £14m
Total spent: £50m
??/??/07 David Jones £1m
??/??/07 Tim Howard £3m
16/7/07 Kieran Richardson £5.5m
31/7/07 Giuseppe Rossi £6.7m
3/8/07 Alan Smith £6m
23/8/07 Gabriel Heinze £8m
??/??/08 Ryan Shawcross £1m
??/??/08 Phil Bardsley £2m
Total Received: £33.2m
United net spent: £16.8m
Final Total: £61.05m
11/05/07 Lucas Leiva £5m
28/06/07 Mikel Dominguez £0.27m
01/07/07 Sebastian Leto £1.8m
4/7/07 Fernando Torres £20.2m
12/7/07 Yossi Benayoun £5m
13/7/07 Ryan Babel £11.5m
26/08/07 Emiliano Insua £1.3m
11/01/08 Martin Skrtel £6.5m
29/02/08 Javier Mascherano £18.6m
Total spent: £70.17m
4/5/07 Florent Sinama-Pongolle £2.7m
20/6/07 Danny O Donnell £0.1m
3/7/07 Javier Luis Garcia £4m
8/7/07 Djibril Cisse £6m
10/7/07 Craig Bellamy £7.5m
19/7/07 Mark Gonzalez £3.5m
26/08/07 Gabriel Paletta £1.2m
28/01/08 Mohamed Sissoko £8.2m
Total Received: 33.2m
Liverpool net spent: £36.97m
Final Total: £91.095m
Manchester United Total Gross Spend = £130.2m
Liverpool Total Gross Spend = £166.92m
- 2 Replies to Tim
Your figures are not right for Liverpool Tim the actuals are:-
Players bought by Rafa Benitez at Liverpool - total spending = £81,596,000
Full List -
Players sold by Rafa Benitez at Liverpool - total revenue = £38,475,000
A net outlay of £43m no-where near 90 odd million!
I'm not sure about your Man Utd figures because I don't follow them. The individual LFC figures don't look far off, but i haven't checked the totals. What I would dispute is benitez had Cisse lumbered on him, and he had toi build a team from a squad of massive mediocrity. He's hardly started in the same position as fergie over that period. where were our Giggs, Scholes, Neville, Neville, Butt. Thats not Benitez's fault. Plus he has hardly had the same backing....which is your point. 28m on Rooney, 29m on Rio, and the 17/18m on anderson and nani, hitherto unknowns who remain squad players at best at the moment. Benitez has had to spend 6.5m on first teamers....Bellamy, Pennant and so on. Now with Torres and Mascherano, I wouldn't argue with you, he is getting some money. He's spent it on two great players there, and hopefully that will tell in the following seasons to come. |It takes time to build, and fergie has had how many years?
Tim, I take it you are suffering from temporary stupidity?
What was your team worth at the start 04/05 and what was Liverpool worth? ie were the starting positions between Rafa & Fergie the same?
- 1 Reply to A Yahoo! User
I've got records back to 1991/92 if you want them. They don't make it any better at all, mate. Some shocking purchases by LFC during that period.
What the figures going back to the season before the premier league began (1991/92) show is that LFC have spent more than United in 11 out of 17 seasons. It's not like you suffered from a lack of investment before Benitez, Houlier spent a fortune too, don't forget.
why not go back another year or two and include the following in ur figures
Ferdinand 29m (British transfer record)
And where the hell is Ronaldo in your list? Second thoughts dont make these changes they will just make ur figures look worse and ur argument look daft
- 1 Reply to A Yahoo! User
Ronaldo was bought in 2003/04. a season before Rafa took over at LFC. That's the period the records on this thread cover, if you've not bothered to read it properly.
As I've already said I've got records going back to 1991/02 and Liverpool still spent more than United even then:
Gross spend by Manchester United between 1991/92 and 2007/08 seasons: £339.45m
Gross spend by Liverpool between 1991/92 and 2007/08 seasons: £348.86m
Net spend by Manchester United between 1991/92 and 2007/08 seasons: £156.495m
Net spend by Liverpool between 1991/92 and 2007/08 seasons: £196.845m
Like I say, going back further doesn't make much difference. Liverpool have spent more than United in the premier league era (and in the season before it), gross and net.
If you really want me to, I'll psot the other records.
If your information is correct then you've got to take in consideration that Rafa inherited a squad whereas SAF's squad was already established also Rafa had to find his feet in the EPL whereas SAF again was already accustomed to it ..
Maybe SAF is a better tactician than Rafa and has better scouts than we do.. also SAF has an assistant manager correct me if I'm wrong but Rafa is doing much of the job by himself !!
Yes we've made some transfer blunders along the way but often Rafa has had to buy his 2nd choice player that would explain why we've such an average squad aside from a few very good players and one star player in Torres.. compare that to Man Utd's how many of their squad is average to ours? I think u will find their squad has more star players than us hence thats why they've won the EPL so often..
- 1 Reply to A Yahoo! User
But the figures show he's had the money to buy the "star players". Why he hasn't been able to get them is a different matter.
The only "star players" at United currently that we paid "star player" money for are Rooney and Ferdinand. The same may eventually be true of Tevez. The rest (with the exception of Tevez and possibly Carrick) became star players by playing so well for us, but that's really beside the point.
I actually think this is a decent thres and a fair point, people have pointed out that some of the stats are incorrect but the point is United aren't really outspending us. It's just we're buying more dud players.
Houllier was hopeless with his signings on the whole. In Rafas defence he has had to take alot of gambles on average fairly cheap (in todays market) players. I think now he's fairly happy with the squad he'll be focussing on quality rather then quantity. He'd alot of work to do after that terrible squad Houllier left him. Will be interesting to see how he does over the next few years, but credit to Fergie he has signed well on the whole although had some poor signings too.
- 1 Reply to A Yahoo! User
I am no expert on your team, but didn't Houlllier leave Benitez with the basis of the team that won the CL in 2005? And didn't Houllier win three trophies in one season, and didn't Houllier take you to second in the EPL? What is Benitez's highest finish?
Don't get me wrong - like all United fans I hope the support at LFC stays behind Benitez, because we obviously want him to carry on the way he is doing things at your club.
Which puts Manchester Uniteds debt at £616 million. And once your Stadium is funded your debt will rise to over £360m but our income is far higher, admitedly your gate income will increase vastly but that will also increase your operating costs.
You may have a point about Souness. I've got records back to his period in charge and he spent more than twice as much as Ferguson did in the same time period, despite LFC bwing the more successful team before he took over.
As much as I hear about United's strong team for the past two decades, I've heard that Liverpool are "rebuilding a team". This doesn't give any credit to the fact that we've rebuilt the team at United four times since the start of the Premier League and (apart from a few relatively lean years at the beginning of this decade) done it sucessfully.
I think Liverpool has suffered not through any lack of funds, but through chronic mis-management for almost 20 years. Whether that's down to the likes of Evans, Houlier, Souness & Benitez or the likes of Parry on the board I don't know. But I do know I'm lucky to have been born in Manchester and been a United fan. Look on the bright side - we both could have been born to City fans!
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