Liverpool Message Board
With all the hype surrounding our less than auspicious start to the season, ownership, debt, who should be manager etc. just want to draw peoples attention to what Ian Rush is trying to do. Seems hes out to help one of our Lancashire neighbours who are in abit of financial difficulty.
We forget whenwe are splashing 20 mill here 20mill there for average players that a tiny fraction of one of those transfer fees would help out a club like Accy. By the way Liverpool has historically always been part of LANCASHIRE we are Liverpudlians but we are also LANCASTRIANS irrespective of how Thatcher split up the old County boundary lines. Accrington is a club with a long history and Ian rightly sees it as important to the local community that it survives. Its often forgotten that these clubs also need money in order to survive in the current cut-throat environment...many fans of PL clubs may not even know of their existence !??? However there they are every week when u hear THE FOOTBALL RESULTS read out over the radio airwaves ...wed all be the poorer for their demise. Spare a thought for the little clubs sometimes , particularly those who are our Lancastrian neighbours.
DANIEL B...There have been appeals launched over the last three years or so to bring back terracing no doubt prompted by the ever increasing cost of sitting lol.I think its worth throwing our support behind such appeals especially when u consider the illustrious history of terracing at Anfield. Maybe if we had terracing incorporated into the new stadium many of those who currently find it too expensive to attend at Anfield would once again be able to be present on match days ...WITH A RESULTING INCREASE IN ATMOSPHERE ?
Been following u discussion with Rafalution 19 on another thread ...good point about the nature of true fans . I too think anyone can become a true fan its all to do with their passion for the club , once its in u blood its never going to leave. As u say the lads watching in the pubs generate more atmosphere these days than our home support do. The point I was making about the January night match v Arsenal and the streaker incident was to illustrate the changing character of those who sit on the Annie Rd End or any other part of the ground for that matter...the people surrounding where we were sitting were tut-tutting me and my pal for finding the event funny eg they had decided to adopt a moral stance , some did have kids with them but even so what the hell u had to laugh and as I say back in the days everybody and I mean EVERYBODY in the ground would have been laughing.
i agree that there doesn't seem to much atmosphere at the games these days unless its a derby, the mancs or a big european night. I have a better atmosphere watching it in the house lol our fans seem to be more vocal at away games where it is the hardcore supporters rather than people coming from all over the world, people who dont know the songs and therefore dont join in the singing (well chanting).
I would have found the naked stunt quite funny, some people just need t get a sense of humour.
I think terracing wouldn't be a problem as long as it is policed properly and with the number of stewards we have these days i dont see it being that as big a problem as some may think. I cant see it happening though to be honest.
Ad. and Daniel B...With u Ad that u get more atmosphere watching the game in a packed pub on a dodgy Sky Box lol.
Daniel B....Ithink its very sad that so many of the long time older AND younger fans can no longer afford to attend Anfield on match days and think that Ad has a point whe he says u now have more atmosphere when watching the game in apacked pub.
Its symptomatic of the changes in British societyover the last 20 years.
The last game I attended at Anfield was back in JANUARY 1995 a bitterly cold night and think it was a League Cup game v Arsenal .I paidat the gate that night to sit in one half of the Annie Rd End. At one point my pal sitting with me suddenly started laughing out loud and indicating something going on in the Century Stand ...it was alarge NAKED bloke climbing over the seating , he eventually made it out onto the pitch and started to run towards a shocked David Seaman in goal at our end of the ground , the playwas up towards the Kop end. The guy extended a hand towards David Seaman who reluctantly shook with him the guy then commenced a series of push-ups in the penalty area .The stewards and police were now making their way down from the Kop end of the ground and entered the pitch area to attempt to apprehend this guy who was quite adept at avoiding them before eventually being caught and escorted out of the ground presumably in a pair of trousers at least !.My pal and I were laughing hysterically at this whole event but suddenly my pal stopped laughing and started to nudge me and step on my foot , he wanted me to look around at the crowd...it was then I realized we had been the only people who found this freezing streaker and his antics amusing .
The thing is that even back then we hadstarted to get a different type of fan on match days because an event like that back in the Shankly era would have generated so much laughter youd have heard it over at Goodison ! I decided then that it was unlikely I would ever again be regular attendee at Anfield sad to say. It was the first game Id attended at Anfield in a few years and the atmosphere was turgid to say the least. I wont waste time commenting on the types of people that made up the crowd on our half of the Annie Rd End that night as Im sure u can imagine....for me , to quote the lyrics of the great Blues man BB KING....The thrill is gone.
Yes Im fully aware that terracing was banned because it was sposed to be dangerous but that doesnt stop me and many others from nostalgically recalling it and hoping that one day if fan demand is loud andpersistent enough we may see its return...the cheap end of the ground ? Perhaps even in our new
75,000 capacity super-stadium ? By the way I never witnessed an accident or anyone hurt in allthe hundreds of times I attended standing on THE KOP.
I forgot to ask colin...i thought the reason we don't have terracing was because it had been outlawed because of hillsbrough? Am i wrong in thinking that?
Ad, i have to say that is appaling what happened to the two young lads, banter at the match is part and parcel of going to the game, it's shocking what we aren't allowed to do these days.
colin, yes you have made your views very clear n what was quite an intresting read. No i had never heard that story before but it sounds like typical shankly, i would love to here anymore stories you have to tell and no i could never see rafa doing that. The oldest red i have in my life is my brother (32) but as my dad has never been into football neither of us ever went to a game when we were younger. My first game was when i was 14 or 15, we beat portsmouth 3-0 in the houllier era and i won £14 on owen scoring first in the 2nd half...it was a good night out (the match was on a wednesday). My sisters boyfriend (who is from lym) took me to that game and he said that even when he was yonger (he's early 30's) he could get on the bus and go to anfield and pay at the gate so i think it must be a relativelty modern thing (15 - 20 years) that the prices have become so extortionate that the avergae working class man can no longer afford to go to the game.
As i said colin, i would love to here any stories you or any other older reds have as i am always looking to learn more and more about our esteemed club.
I never sood on the Kop during the days of Shankly and Paisley but have the previous 2 generations to tell me of it. Pretty much all of Colin's post is what my old man and his old man have said word for word.
There is no question of whether fans now support the club as much as they did in the past, but unless you stood on the terraces and experienced the atmosphere (I can only try to imagine the Kop with 26,000 in the 1960's), you can't understand how much its missed by so many of us.
The class aspect is another massive reason why the atmosphere has gone. Like already mentioned, there are a lot fewer working class Liverpudlians able to afford regular attendance at Anfield. From personal experience it is a fact that the affluent families and foreign tourists who have taken their place, draped in club merchandise and taking pictures, are not vociferous enough on matchday. I was on last season and saw 2 young scouse lads kicked out the ground by stewards for having banter with the Man City fans. They were easy targets and stuck out like a sore thumb because they were surrounded by silent onlookers, whereas the City mob were too many to deal with and so allowed to continue.
The whole nature of going to a top flight game now is more like a trip to the theatre - you get a better atmosphere watching the game on a dodgy sky box in a packed out pub in Liverpool than the Kop these days.
Daniel B...No , dont think its the case that one cant be a :real: Liverpool fan if u werent there during the Mr Bill Shankly era. I think anyone can and could become a Liverpool fan at any time during any era and I wish them all well.
I am 60 and have been a fan since back when we were a good side in the what was the old 2nd division regularly just missing out on promotion before Mr Bill Shankly arrived.
The atmosphere inside Anfield then was palapable, electric now the place most of the time on a game day sems like a morgue by comparison.
Of course its not your fault when u were born anymore than it is for anyone else but I would encourage u to chat with older fans as I always did ;it gave me a real sense of the history traditions and culture of our club.
I do not think the current crop of fans found within the confines of Anfield on game day are in any way less dedicated than fans who lived through a different era but perhaps they are not imbued with quite the same degree of passion for the club that we had ? Remember that life was different too then ,it was a different society to that of today, there was a great deal of poverty in Liverpool, indeed it was known throughout the UK for being the countrys worst unemployment blackspot with casual labour on the docks still the order of the day in the Shankly Era. Strange though it might sound now with the price of a ticket at nearly 40 quid most of the support was comprised of poorer people most of the capacity of the ground the vast majority of it in fact was terracing and entry to the Kop and The Annie Rd End was VERY reasonably priced by todays standards, it was in fact cheap to attend even by standards of that time.This was the case because it was realized that most people really could afford no more. The passion for the club grew out of these social conditions most in the ground were native Liverpudlians there were those who had adopted our club and would travel from further flung outposts in the UK on game day but far far fewer than we see today. Also this was a time when all-ticket matches were rare, confined to FA CUP TIES and the derby and Manure affairs...u could travel to an away game say at Spurs or Chelski or Villa and simply pay at the turnstyle to gain entry ;sometimes our travelling support would hit the 30,000 plus mark we often had far more support by far inside the ground of the opposition than they did !
Am I nostalgic for these times ? Yes , were there still terracing if The Kop was still in existence I would be happily squeezed in there with everybody else roaring my support till I was hoarse after the game. Maybe there are plenty of others like me too who still support the club and always will. However I think it unlikely that there will ever be a return to terracing UNLESS it is, and it has been , demanded by the fans. Perhaps the demand should be made before any new stadium is built this way fans of this era might one day be able to experience the real passion and thrill of being in attendance on match day as it is there are far too many real fans out there in the city of Liverpool who dont attend anymore for the simple reason that they cant afford to...I find that sad and feel sure it is a situation that Mr Bill Shankly would never have tolerated. I dont know if u know of the story when Mr Shankly in front of The Kop reprimanded a police
officer for grabbing a young fan by his scarf telling the officer ...
:DONT DO THAT !!! When u screw up that scarf u are screwing up someones life.: Can u see Benitez ever doing that ? lol. OK sorry to have been so long winded but hope that I have made my view of the clubs fans clearer now ?
sorry, just wanted to add to that. The way you speak sometimes, it like you can only be a proper liverpool fan if you were around in the bill shankly era? Is this the way you really feel? Please correct me and tell me that I am wrong as I am sure you appreciate all liverpool fans' support for the club.
It is not my fault, or anyone elses fault if we were born after the shankly and paisley eras, in fact, after the dalglish era. Well for me during the dalglish era, but was way too young to have any idea what was going on.
I for one think that us fans who have been brought up during the barren spell of the 90's are maybe a little more dedicated as we have seen our team winning practically f*ck all but we have still stuck with out team and in no way can be considered glory hunters. Where as maybe some fans who started supporting them in the 70's only did so because we were the best in the country, much like many of man u fans today.
As i said before, its jus the way you speak that sometimes it sounds like your only a proper lfc fan if you stood on the kop when bill shankly was around. Again, please tell me I am wrong.
Does that make sense at all lol?
Its not just Accy who are f*cked. The 3rd & 4th tiers of the Football League are filled with clubs just about keeping their heads above water. Its down to Sky and the huge gap thats developed between rich and poor since the formation of the Premier League.
Oh and bring back pre 1974 Lancastrian boundaries. How can the most Lancastrian of towns, Wigan, not be in Lancashire anymore? Rubbish.
- 2 Replies to AML81
as usual, jose feels he is standing on the shoulders of giants when posting on threads such as these...... much thanks, colin, ad, et al, for some STELLAR posts and good, honest, UNBIASED commentary on all matters lfc unlike some severely deluded muppets on this board...... anyhow, back to the subject at hand, it is a shame these clubs are struggling.... in italy, the reverse is happening with serie A poised to break away from the rest of the league.... jose thinks this is one thing platini has got right.... getting the big clubs to balance their books is only one aspect of it..... now if he could enforce colin's idea of percentage of the tv money going to the lower leagues....... the problem is that the premier league is seperate and it's own entity... it isn't part of the football league..... at this point, it would be hard to reverse the trend, but not impossible..... jose sees the possibility of a breakaway european super league as imminent soon unless somethign is done..... with the european super league will surely follow the demise of the national leagues.... obrigado friends!!!!
Hey AD....good to hear from somebody via this thread that thinks we should re-establish pre 1974 Lancashire boundaries ...anymore of us out there ? As u say how can Wigan NOT be part of LANCASHIRE ? Im proud to be a Liverpudlian but have also always been proud to be a Lancastrian.
You would think there would be some way more equitable for sharing out the spoils of the tv money eh ? eVEN A VERY SMALL PERCENTAGE DOLED OUT TO THE SMALLER CLUBS IN THE LOWER TIERS OF THE lEAGUE would help them immensely .
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