Liverpool Message Board
I know we had a poor first half but we are definately a new team in the making. Some great football at times and once the boys weld together, we can only improve further. Great performance from Pepe, good debut by Konchelsky, Meireles looks good, Lucas looking much better, Fernando threatening to spark, etc. Maxi had a poor game but Birmingham are a hard nut to crack these days and a point at this stage of the new LFC is a good result in my book. Much better overall than the Rafa days. Discuss?
Did you actually even look at the link you posted? I said nothing of the sort about Meireles so get YOUR facts right before you start spewing out a load of rubbish Dave.
You were the one who said that when he came on he played further up the field than a central midfielder. All I was implying is that we would have been better off with him playing that role and having Gerrard back in centre mid alongside one of Poulsen or Lucas instead of playing both of them.
There maybe different reasons we can come up with why Roy decided to push Raul up front just behind Torres, but I think at least one very viable explanation is that his quality there could have made a difference, and was not dependent on his needing to understand the system as a whole. Good runs and quality on the ball could have made the difference.
However for him to really make a difference in is natural position, he not only needs to fully understand Roy's system, but all the players around him, especially those he'd distributing to. No player, especially those playing in the center, get much time on the ball so he needs to instinctively know where players are, where they run, how fast they run, and what is the way in which they like to receive the ball.
That does not come from 2 or 3 training sessions, but over time working with the lads. Sure it can be argued he should be given game time to learn those things, but that is in effect on the job training, and to expect great results from a trainee new to the job is, well you get the picture.
The thing is dave, meireles is a deep lying midfielder by nature but he does venture forward, more a starting place a little like old man scholes is doing right now. I was suprised to see him playing so far forward especially as we had pacheco and babel on the bench still. I like Roy and I'm a patient man not ready to jump on Antibes back but I do wonder about this lack of change making.
Totally disagree with you Miguel. We showed we did not know how/want to play football and were totally clueless in tactics. Birmingham, by far the better team. Although this LFC team is new, thats no excuse. I am starting to think "Woy" is out of his depth at the level we all aspire to.
I hope I am wrong.
- 1 Reply to Ed dw i
Some very good points from those who have much greater knowledge of the game than me. However, my point remains a simple one surely. I remain convinced that we will improve and stick to the fact also that I see, if not a great deal to encourage rather than depress me in the few games played so far, then at least some encouraging signs. Sure, Gerrard, Torres, Johnson, Maxi had a poor game on Sunday but, as Roy has pointed out, they have had little time as yet to adjust to a changed situation.
Rome was not built in a day and to be criticising and carping, debating team choices and player performances etc at this stage of Roy´s tenure is premature imo. Fine to do so once we are back in the grove like Man U, Chelsea etc but, at present we are a work in progress and far from a finished article.
To undo then rework the previous managers style, tactics etc will take time and a point off Birmingham is not a bad result to come away with at this stage, It´s as good as Man U and Chelsea managed last season since when B´ham have strengthened. Lots of new faces in the team and, as Steer points out, they will need a little time to gel together surely.
Give it another eight games with similar results and I´ll feel more inclined to agree with a lot of the criticism levelled in this post but, until then, sorry but I remain optimistic. Finally, lest we get carried away, I think that to aspire to a top four finish at this point is not realistic given the task in hand, money available etc and if we do get there it it will be a huge achievement imo. LFC is seriously damaged goods at the moment in terms of board, cashflow, player pool etc and it will take quite some time for that to be sorted out. So, no miracle cures in the short term and hence no real point in levelling criticisms at the Manager or team just yet. Too many of us have unrealistic aspirations for the "great Liverpool" we used to have and we need to show a little more patience rather than expressing frustrations at poor results at this early stage wouldn´t you agree?
The team, together with it's manager, still has a serious attitude problem. Lack of confidence and self-belief to go out and dominate teams is a worry.
I can only hope that this is a temporary problem that will go away as the season wears on. Old Trafford is next.
- 1 Reply to jaggoo
Miguel, we were shocklingly bad, Birmingham deserved to win and as has already been said, if it wasn't for Pepe they would have. I don't know what the possession stats are but throughout the game it kept popping up on the telly that it was at least 60-40 in brums favour. Shocking from a team that apires to break back into the top 4.
What is with the team selection? Why spend £11m+ on Meireles just to go and play both Lucas and Poulsen ahead of him? We have all been crying out for a stop to the 2 holding midfielders malarky and against Arsenal it looked like that was what we were going to get but since then we have gone backwards.
Also, Agger should have started ahead of Skrtel who should be shipped out in January or the Summer imo to make way for the new breed of Ayala, Wilson, Wisdom and Mavinga.
Finally, Jovanivic is gash. I don't like slating players and like to give them there chance but he just doesn't do anything for me, I would much rather see a genuine talent like Pacheco given a chance. Not being funny, but if Jova was really any good, why has it taken this long to leave the Belgium league for a decent one. He probably would be a decent squad player, but that it. Unfortunately for us he looks like Roys first choice.
Would you would both agree, that if we put in that type of 1st half performance next Sunday at Old Trafford, we will be down 6-0 by halftime?
Everyone knew this would be an extremely tough match with Birmingham's record and tough defense at home, but sooner or later they are going to conceed goals and lose at home, so why not have the thinking that it could have been Liverpool's day today, that's the point. We should have a winning mentality even when we go to Stamford Bridge, Emirates, Villa Park etc, and if they draw or lose, ok, but they didn't intend to.
The only positives I can take from this was Pepe's exceptional performance and seems he's back to top form. Konchesky seemed to have really settled and performed well most of the game, Gerrard was as creative as he could be, Torres got better towards the end, and Meireles brought excitment to the pitch. The rest, the whole body of work, wasn't acceptable. They must take that possession and control of the final 10 minutes and dominate mid week Europa and follow through vs Man Utd. I guess build on the end and accept the draw..
Miguel, I don't genuinely know what game you watched. We were two goals worse than Birmingham, who in my view deserved the win. Only Reina's heroics saved us.
The team selection absolutely astounds me. I know Hodgson is not a good enough manager for Liverpool, but to admit he didn't expect to get a win, to go, NOT with two holding midfielders, but with quite possibly two of the worst and least industrious holding midfielders I've ever seen, was a joke. Why buy Meireles if he doesn't merit a start in front of either of those two. I've been saying Poulsen is appalling, and that I stand to be proved wrong. Well today he was an embarrassment, totally vindicating me.
Then there is Babel. Was he injured?? Why challenge the lad to step up, and then NOT play him. Instead we get the other useless pile of **** acquisition Jovanovic, who is absolute garbage.
These players do not deserve to wear the red shirt. I struggle for positives. Only the form of Reina, and the relative solidity under pressure of Carragher were pluses. Agger, Babel, and Meireles are all better players than the ones Hodgson used.
I can only wonder what formation and selections Hodgson might make against United because if he didn't think we could beat Birmingham, what price even a point against United. Perhaps he thinks we shouldn't even turn up?
I am one depressed Liverpool fan tonight, althopugh perhaps not as depressed as Torres looked today, he looked like he was one step away from slashing his wrists on the pitch, so little did he mentally apply himself to the game. Maybe me, and Torres both need to come and live in your little bubble Miguel….then life would be rosy!!!
My point is not that we played well, we didnt. Rather that compared to the finished article LFC were under Benitez, the signs I see this season are encouraging. Give it time, you´ll agree before the end of the season! Pepe should haver been MOM
I* genuinely do not understand your point. I substitute poor for lack lustre. If you dont show ambition you will always fail. That is why RH's CV so long but so consistent in its lack of aachievement. But for Reina we would have been soundly beaten. How he did not get MOM defeats me
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