Liverpool Message Board
The really worrying thing is we desperately need a left back and, unless and until Agger pulls through and seals his spot, we also desperately need a centre back to replace Skertl.
We would seem to have an abundance of strikers if posts on this board are to be believed, with the likes of Torres, N'gog, Babel, Kuyt, Maxi and Jova all supposedly class strikers with young backups in the form of Pacheco, Eccleston, Amoo, ...
Not a game changer, although he might have made a real difference on Saturday, but what if Roy brought in an equivalent player to Hangerland? Can't say he does not have the ability to do this, he's the one who brought the Dane into Fulham which helped them shore up their back line and turn a relegation battling squad into a team competing for European places.
I can knock Roy on many fronts, but we've yet to see what Roy can do in the transfer market if given a little cash. But what we do know is you can't tar him with the Poulson brush if you don't also give him credit for players like Meireles or Hangerland.
Who knows, but alot of that responsibility falls on Commolli, his scouts and staff to help bring names and attention to Roy.
Roy's never worked with this type of money. He could very well bring in mediocre players, but again, like Meireles he could surprise. Not to mention we all thought Cole was going to be brilliant and is a total bust so far... Who knew??
Fact is, we "should" thrash Fulham. And, that probably means he's here to see out Wolves and Blackpool going into the window... so I guess we're at an impass and probably have to at least try and be optimistic.
There are quality proven epl players available we could look at, that are better than what we currently have, and affordable...
I see Nzogbia as a vast upgrade over Maxi or Kuyt on either wing. Cahill would be a massive upgrade over Kyrg, and I won't completely rule out Ashley Young either.. Plus all the man city want aways... Johnson?? Just 1 or 2 wide, attacking, creative players alone will make Torres, Gerrard and Ngog that much better around goal. I can't remember the last time I saw a decent cross from either side for Torres to get up and head in... it's baffling and blatant to see, even by Roy.
I'm not denying Roy's shortcomings, I'm just looking at things realistically. I don't see NESV sacking him unless we lose the next 3 in horrible fashion. At that point it's going to be too late to salvage anything, and it's just about getting there now..so they would have done it already.
Can you really see Hodgson bringing in some top talent in January? Or "game changers" as you put it.
I fear it'll be same as usual average players or has beens..
We'll only do well when we've a new manager who knows his stuff and has his own style, that he knows is tried and proven.. Hodgson's style is very patchy.. we've now lost as many games as we've won more or less !! Thats not progress thats being stagnent .. I truly feel Hodgson hasn't got it in him to make LFC progress..
I'm with you Miguel on the whole leadership aspect and that coming from the manager. I truly believe confidence and success flows down hill.
And, while I agree with you 100% that when we have matches where the team comes out completely flat, or only plays one half or the other, or looks lost etc., then that is completely on the manager in most cases (every dog has his day, sometimes teams and players do too). BUT, like I was saying, if you include our last 4 matches, which 2 @ Anfield and @ away at difficult venues and we played extremely well from the opening whistle but just did not finish chances and get the results, I don't think there's much else you can say or do. I felt we dropped 4-6 points based on simple, basic things... mental errors, physical errors
Torres scores that breakaway chance 95/100 times that he shot right at Krul... I'd had bet a wad of cash on him finishing that one. Same thing with him in the Spurs match with 2 similar chances.. but, none of us are pointing any fingers at Torres, at least openly. I'm critical of him, but I'm also his biggest fan, I followed him since Atletico... right now he's all out of sorts. It's a team game, and I think the team (under preparation of Roy) gave Fernando these chances @ Spurs @ Toon, and if he finishes he's the hero and we're not all over Roy.
And, again, the bottom line of it all, with the exception of the addition of Meireles, bringing in Kelly to a more prominent role adding to what we have, this team is just not that good. If Roy brings a bunch of flops this January and we go on to finish 7th, 8th or god forbid worse then he deserves all the blame. I think he deserves that much, since he didn't have 2 nickels to rub together in the summer especially under H&G...
Considering Meireles was brought in for a reasonable price, completely off the radar, while being tracked by Chelsea and other top European teams, that showed a little bit of class in market dealings by Roy, don't you think? Putting all the names and rumors aside, who really knows the players he's looking at right now? He could shock us all and bring in 2-3 players that can really be game changers and match winners in addition to Torres and Gerrard..
Not good for debate but, Jason, reckon you have hit the nail right on the head with those thoughts. The only fault you can possibly lay at Roy,s door then is the inability to lift the players for EVERY game and not just the home ties. Results are created by strong leadership and that is with the manager so, if we are playing great football (and we are) on occasions followed by performances which are poor, then one has to point the finger more at the leadership - in this case Roy. It´s a large part of his job to inspire and it woulod appear he is unable to do so on the road without the "Anfield" factor to rely on. Also, a mark of great managerial ability is to see electrifyingly better performances after the half time talk when the first half has been poor but, if anything, our´s deteriorate both away and even at home which tends to support what I am saying I think? Where I am in total agreement with what you say is that we would not be having these debates in the Rafa era and also, there has been a marked improvement from many of the squad this season for which Roy deserves credit. Finally, I and many others still appear to be basing our judgment on past LFC glory days and seeing the team as league leaders or potential winners which is a shade unrealistic given our present circumstances perhaps?
I agree with everything, and I'm going to play devil's advocate here on a few points.
First, can anyone disagree that we played great at Spurs and deserved a win, a draw wasn't fair. That L really hurt. Let's say we had that draw, and yesterday, Torres takes his easy chance we probably go on to win and have 4 more points and are sitting 6th in the table today. We aren't having discussions over sacking Roy or player's mentality etc. This makes us a bit hypocritical, myself included.
Second, let's say Rafa was still in charge and we had the same run of results where we're on cloud 9 after thrashing our 2 home games, and disgusted dropping points in our 2 away games. Nobody is calling for Rafa to be sacked, rather for him to stop playing his negative style and saying he needs more money.. again myself included. But instead, look at how we played, from a footballing standpoint... For more or less the entire match vs Newcastle, we dominated possession, played some neat passing combinations, but didn't finish in the final 3rd... that's on the players because it can't be their credit for playing a certain style they and we enjoy, but then not their fault, but Roy's for not finishing... it makes no sense.
And, let's be honest, the squad has decent players and internationals (which is an overrated term), Roy largely inherited the same squad from last year that was miserable on and off the pitch. Call me critical or disagree, but Maxi is playing above anything we could imagine, but he's not a good enough wide player. Kuyt, runs his socks off, tracks back, epitomy of team player but not a winger and probably not even pacey or skilled enough anymore to be a striker. Every time we get on the break the ball gets to Kuyt and he stops it and dinks it backwards because he can't race past anyone. Lucas, has turned into a nice player, maybe our most consistent but not a game changer. Cole, a bust, can't even get on the pitch. Jovan hasn't impressed to get any minutes but wasn't a Roy signing.. Poulsen and Konchesky are completely substandard at this level, but were emergency buys and stop-gap fills. Everyone complained about Insua and Aquilani so they got loaned out... wish granted. Kyrg not a starting player either..
What else can Roy do with this current squad if they are motivated, enjoying playing his style? There's nobody else to select from. And in the end we should have and almost had results the last 2 away games, if we did, we're not having this debate, but rather saying we've turned the corner. We'll even be singing this tune if we take care of Fulham/Wolves/Blackpool like we "should"...
I DO NOT love Roy, I DIDN'T want him, but I can't blame him for mental and physical errors, stupid and silly ones.
I think red and jason you both make valid points. However, I am inclined to think also that the biggest problem is the one of the players´attitude. Red, I agree that this is what managers are paid to influence and where we are falling down at the moment as witnessed by the confidence which prevails at Anfield and disappears like mist when we play away resulting in the horrible inconsistency I mentioned. In support of this, take Torres for example. A shadow of the Torres who set the world alight during his first season and now looks dispirited, motivationless and frankly, yards off the pace. Same guy, same skills but attitude changed completely. That is largely down to how the team is being managed but, that said, the players on 100k plus a week in many cases, should be above that and capable of giving better. Sure, a few more strong determined thick skinned individuals a la Gerrard mode would help but we need better motivation from the manager too imo. Hopefully NESV will take action one way or the other to correct the problems sooner rather than later. As a footnote, I don´t see a lot wrong with the Hodgson method of play but perhaps he lacks the ability to apply it to a more talented bunch of individuals than he has previously managed. Time - and we are running short of that - will no doubt tell.
Jason I see what you are trying to say, but then comes the big question what do we employ a manager for?
The managers job is to find the problems his players are having and make sure that that they are not happening. He is there to motivate when down, pat on the back when on a high and ensure that these individuals we have are playing as ONE and we then have a team.
I am afraid that Roy does not have the qualities required to do the above and more, and it's all very well saying we were terrible in defence but it's his job to make sure we are not so.
I don't want to seem that I am just jumping on the anti RH bandwagon but he really does lack the quality required to lead a team to the top.
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