Liverpool Message Board
Sergio Aguero - 31 games, 28 goals.
Papas Cisse - 10 games, 9 goals.
Pavel Pobgrenyiak - 8 games, 8 goals.
Nikica Jelavic - 9 games, 6 goals.
Andrew Carroll - 32 games, 4 goals.
I guess the good news is, and what comforts me about this is that he was bought for the future, he's still only 23, and he will "come good"
So while he gets older, moves into the future, progresses, and "comes good" while we sit and wait for the future while others live in the NOW, these other players are already very good, getting better and producing tangible results otherwise known as goals, which in turn lead to wins. Also known as "being good"
Now let the "coming good", defense against the tangible, factual evidence begin..
What does coming good mean anyways, I tried to google it and checked wikipedia and found 0 results..
(For the Lucas comparisons/rebuttals, he had unquestioned worke rate, stamina, athletic ability, composure/mental strength against terrible treatment, AND was played as a CDM when coming as the most highly rated attacking player from Brazil.)
I've got to admit I lliked the look of Pobgrenyiak first time he played fo Fulham.
those figures you quote is part of what really bugs me about Carroll. yes he's young etc. but he did much better at Newcastle. He's not brought that form with him and stating the obvious that's in part down to him and in part down to us simply not being good enough, capable or tactically not playing to his strengths.
It seems to me that if Kenny wants to play in a particular way that doesn't suit Carroll then he's been a huge waste. We simply bought the wrong player.....AGAIN!! I cant see that changing without a rethink on how we get him into the right places and give him the service he needs.
The Lucas comparison is interesting but it's not the same in my eyes. He has, to his credit learned to play that role. He's far from perfect at it but we're certainly missing him and was one of those who thought he was a waste of space originally whereas a striker of Carrolls type relies on service. Without it he will never develop and grow anywhere near the value we paid for him.
We'll see I guess
- 1 Reply to Colyn
Carroll is certainly a bit of an enigma. The stats dont lie and part of the reason for his poor showing with us surely is the number of balls he is provided with. Newcastle fired everything imaginable at him as their central attacker and the law of averages says you are bound to convert some of those! I feel his awareness in the box is often poor but in his defence, he is feeding on rather meagre scraps. Of late, his outfield play, control, lay offs etc shows improvement for me and once again, there is usually no-one around him to take advantage which is hardly his fault.
Teams have to playwith an expectancy and we tend not to on occasion. How often have Downing, Bellamy, Johnson, Kelly, Enrique etc passed defenders only to find they have one target to hit in the box as opposed to three or four? At the same time, how often have players hung back when Carroll wins a high ball with no-one ahead of him to lay it off to?
What I am saying is, in order to adapt, there has to be something consistent and reliable to which to adapt and with the way we play at the moment, the consistency simply ain´t there.
To me "to come good" is a hope rather than base it on any sort of fact..Regarding Caroll.
As you right noted Jason theirs strikers already scoring more at his age..
These players will only score more than Caroll will..
We effectively threw £35m outta the window...
hindsight is truly a wonderful ability.
With the exception of Aguero,did any of us even know of these players?
If Kenny had paid £10 million on an african who no one had heard of can you imagine the outcry?
After the season Carroll was having before his injury at Newcastle,did anyone think he would struggle like he has?
What did Cappello say "England's number nine for the next 10 yrs?"
And it's all too easy to get it wrong.For every Aguero there's a Shevchenko(or a Kezman,sorry Robert not going after you guys in particular!)
- 1 Reply to Emlyn'S Heroes
Actually Ba was well known but clubs avoided him like the plague for a reason he kept failing medicals so rather than questioning managers and scouts we should question the medical staff.
Wasn't Carroll the only one of the strikers listed that could be called 'established' in the EPL before moving to their current clubs?
Think that makes his numbers look even more damning.
Still he deserves another season.
- 1 Reply to Anyone But United
Yes but only for half a season in the prem. It was the year in the championship I think that got people excited about his potential. The question is were all those experts who rated Carroll not just Kenny wrong or when is he likely to reach his potential on a consistent basis?
I'll defer to your knowledge but I thought he really did not get much attention as a top player until he joined Marseille at 25 or 26 while before that he played at lower league or smaller French clubs.
But I do agree they really don't have much in common. Personally I'm still not sure he'll live up to his price tag but as we've both said what was spent is water under the bridge. But I also think he's starting to improve. His hold up play is getting better as is his distribution. But most important his movement or ability to be in a position to take chances is getting better. For me like Suarez he just needs to be more clinical although 2 in his last 3 matches ain't bad.
I think you are both kinda right. Torres and Carroll have both been dissapointing signings for the money that was shelled out, neither have scored enough goals this season. You could however argue that Carroll just put us in the FA Cup final whilst Torres killed off a late Barca onslaught to put Chelsea in the Champions league final, that some might say, is pretty successful!
The other thing is that I think it is fair to say Torres' best is probably behind him whereas Carrolls best 'may' well be ahead of him.
Again it's expectations. For a 27 year old I'd expect a settling period then a return. For a 21 year old I'd expect a settling in period also but would also afford him some development time before I expected the best from him. But that is just my expectations.