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  • LFC_Armchair_Supporter LFC_Armchair_Supporter Aug 23, 2012 21:38 Flag


    It would seem BR hasn't put in a bid for Dempsey yet the player is unsettled due to BR approach and Jol isn't selecting him..

    So why doesn't BR just put in a bid for him and be done with it?

    BR admitted he's light upfront. Get in Dempsey then !!

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    • RON J...yes indeedy Sir speculate to accumulate sums it up and we would of course be increasing our liquidity position and then of course we could always plough into the hedge fund and comply with FFP TFUCKUTOO rules and regs eh ? Did I metion to u that nifty little private pension plan couldnt interest u in such could I......I hope not !...lol

    • Appreciate the sarcastic remarks, but discussion often can degenerate when people talk past each other.

      I'm fully aware of what actuary means, what an accountant does, what risk is and the ways to manage it. But it seems unfortunately you've not bothered to look up anything about FFP which is what I advised when I started this discussion with you.

      This is not about how much risk we should take on, how to manage it, or whether I'd take on less than you (which apparently is the case as I've seen us borrow in the recent past and saw us a gnats hair or a high court’s judgment from liquidation and I'd rather not go down that path again).

      It is about balancing the books, because that is the new world we live in. Like it or not, agree with it or not, FFP dictates clubs can only spend what they earn. Going beyond that risks sanction from UEFA up to being banned from European competitions.

      If your goal, like mine is to see LFC back at the top of the heap, doing so for me at least means challenging for the title and playing at the top table in Europe, then staying inside the lines when it comes to FFP is just a fact of life.

      Now please again, forget about re-reading your risk management text book again, and just type FFP into Google. Then come back and tell me if borrowing to get into the top 4, and living beyond our means to stay there is a viable strategy.

    • ......or even a little speculation to accumulate?....

    • Dsteer...fraid u only get C- for composition and its a D for comprehension. OK HERE WE GO...check definition for Actuary u will find it features the term :risk: now check out Accountant.
      If all we need to concern ourselves with this season and next and for the forseeable future is the need to be in THE BLACK then why dont we simply put on our scarves and prepare toleap ceiling high as we open that quaterly financial statement from the club as we are yet again informed ....THE BOOKS ARE BALANCED !!!
      Why bother with that tedious trip to Anfield to watch Prem League games FA CUP or Europa stuff when all we need to do to get all the LFC buzz we need is open that envelope once every three months...Who knows maybe u right maybe this is...
      THE FUTURE ? Myself I prefer to be more the actuary than the common or garden accountant and not as Ron J so astutely and concisely put it..risk.spoiling the ship for a haporth of tar.

    • Thank you for not assuming I'm thick, although some may disagree with you on that point, but hopefully that is neither here nor there.

      But maybe I'm not quite as smart as I thought, or maybe resemble a couple short planks, because there is something’s about your post I just don’t' understand. Now in fact I'm neither an accountant nor an actuary, so maybe others can help explain this to me.

      You say we are worse off if we don’t make top 4 and realize the benefits for the extra TV reveneue from CL. Understanding of course our current situation is to invest what we earn and not go into debt, but that is a worse situation that what you are proposing.

      That proposal being, spend now which inevitably means going into debt to better our chances of actually making the top 4 this season so we'll have CL football next year along with the extra TV revenue.

      Now, putting aside the fact spending lots of money is not a guarantee of finishing in the top 4 (actually I'd rather not put it aside as it’s a major issue I pointed out, but as you completely ignored it, I suppose I can only lead you to water, but cannot make you drink), I'm still a bit puzzled on how we're better off.

      Assuming this extra 30M spent, meaning the new 30M of debt we'd be carrying actually gets us top 4 (big if as I said, and despite your own post being littered with "if's" as you ignore their consequences I suppose we can brush it under the carpet) what we have to spend the extra revenue gained from CL football to pay back our debt to ensure we're not foul of FFP?

      But that extra revenue, also assumes we get beyond the group stage, as that is where the real money kicks in, but won't we have to re-invest in the squad again to ensure we have a CL quality squad, and enough depth of quality to ensure we can fight on both fronts and keep our top 4 status.

      So are you saying let’s get out the old credit card now, so we have a chance of making the top 4. If we're successful dust off the plastic again to make sure we get through the group stage and maintain our top 4 position. I suppose we then pay off the debt? Or do we have to keep on borrowing if we want to move further forward?

      Now as I said I'm still a bit puzzled. We are worse off staying in the black and looking to make incremental progress. But better off if we deficit spend so we "might" get into the top 4, and keep on deficit spending in order to maintain CL football, and borrow even more if we want to push for the title.

      I do hope those "might’s" and "if's" don't turn sour, and those pesky rules about debt don't take effect anytime soon. Otherwise, seems like a great plan!

    • Got to agree with you there Ron. Too light up front for my liking, made even more uncomfortable by the fact that Carroll doesn't seem to fit (yet o perhaps ever) and Borini hasn''t hit the ground running either.

      Also a very valid point about what's the point in complying with FFP if you don't qualify for Europe?

      Unfortunately I think our problems run a little deeper with that due to a succesion of managers with completely different ideas and lets be honest, a host of bad buys / deals.

      It's been an odd transfer window for me though. The slow start, the odd deal, City have been very quiet, Chelsea going mad, and many seemingly looking to shed / drop their wage bill.

    • Hey Noo Noo.....I'm not too far away from what you are saying.....this year we need to settle down a bit and look for stability in terms of the management, playing staff and playing philosophy, and I think we're getting there....but I also think that a top 4 place neeeds to be achieved too...otherwise we end up rigidly balancing the books among the "deadmen" with FFP an irrelevance...who wants to buy a world brand name that aint competing at the top level...who wants to join or even stay at a mid-table Club? I think the way we are right now, a top 4 place is achievable this season...but we are far too light on strikers for comfort. If BR knows of one or two who fit his requirements I think he should be given the OK to get them without having to first flog off some of the glut of midfielders that we currently have. Why spoil the ship for an 'haporth of tar?

    • In response guys. Isn't sacking managers and throwing money at the new manager exactly what we've been doing for the last few years? Rafa threw more money at players than anyone I can remember, Hodgson, Dalglish / Comolli spent big and let's be completely honest here the whole thing has not helped the stability of the club one little bit.

      The clubs been paying BIG BIG wages to players that contribute very little. That just doesn't make sense in any shape or form and therefore it also makes complete sense to put the brakes on and clear it out. The FFP thing just increases the priority on that.

      I suspect the we could go and spend quite big again if we were prepared to carry more debt but at what cost. Look at City now. They can't offload players, when they do they go at a cut price (Johnson and Adebayor) and they have players still asking for more. They aren't buying much right now either. I believe that their wage bill (pre Adebayor's sale) was 120% of what the club actually generates or something like that anyway. Rich owers or not that's plain barmy and I think unsustainable in the long term. It'll cost them a lot lot more to square the books.

      For me this year is about steadying the ship. If we can qualify fo Europe then that's a real bonus. and I think it's also a possibility. I like to dream.

      I agree there's a danger of falling further behind but in my mind that's already happened years ago. We've just failed to accept it. We've seen other lubs emerge as title contenders or realistic top 4 contenders now which makes the task harder. HOWEVER, if there is a club in the PL which is under performing it is Liverpool. The market for us is skewed, we have in the past regularly over paid for players and the squad is no where near the shape Rodgers wants or even needs but we have to stop throwing money at the problem thinking it will fix it. It hasn't so far so steady the ship and then build again. The potential is there it's about getting the most out of it.

    • Colin....my feelings entirely, if we dont make top 4 and CL this year....then we'll have to be content with Europa at best for a long time to come......"cant see the wood for trees"

    • Colin....my feelings entirely, if we dont make top 4 and CL this year....then we'll have to be content with Europa at best for a long time to come.

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