Liverpool Message Board
Hardly suprising with team selections of late but it is nice to see them both get a public kick up the bottom. Downing I cant see ever being an LFC player of note although Enrique is one most of us agree is capable of pulling himself together.
Sorry guys for lighting the blue touch paper on this.
For me it's still too early to be judging Borini. Perhaps that's the case with Downing and Enrique too but I certanly don't see enough of them to make the same judgement that Rodgers has. However as seasoned PL players I would expect Rodgers to be fully aware of their abilities as players and perhaps now, after a closer look he's decided that they aren't right.
Jason, mention a very valid point on Downing as purchase. Completely barmy when you consider resale etc. Even worse when you look at his contribution thus far.
I thought I'd just raise the point on the fact that managers often live or die by their signings. It's been relatively easy for Rodgers decide that certain players within the existing squad aren't what he needs. It'll be more difficult when they're his own signings. Borini is the easy target at the moment I guess but too early for me. As I've mentioned previously he reminds me of Kuyt during his early Liverpool days. Loads of running and efffort, little end product and I often wondered why we'd bothered.
dsteer....my complimentary post refering to u self is on the thread MAGNIFICO although I was replying to Jason in regard to this nutter Gary S I think what I said about u is something that posters to this board would consider complimentary and essentially what this board is all about ...thoughts ? You just have to click on the 2nd 'more replies' and this post will come up.
d steer...in my post I suggest that Borini is being played out of his best position. I imply that I would pick him to play centre rather than wide but should he not perform ie not score and his contribution was negligible or worse still we were to find he was getting in the way of Louis scoring then...hed have to go. Cant see what there is to be getting upset about?
You havent in any way offended me and to prove it check a thread with this cretin GARY S on it who so offended Jason and in one of my replies to Jason I have nothing but good things to say about u so would imagine u would appreciate that ? BUT though I know u are a true fan a passionate supporter of the club I do think sometimes that it gets a bit old hat ALWAYS saying I go along with what the manager thinks or happens to be doing.
Im VERY happy with what BR is doing with our club for the most part....I love the way hes read certain players with a lazy attitude the riot act ...well over due....lets see more of it ! I LOVE the way hes showed so much faith in our kids long may it remain that way. I didnt like what he did with Andy C and still dont and I didnt like the way he tracked back and forth before he did it. Im not convinced as to just how skillful a player Borini is and I havent liked the way Enrique has so frequently left us so exposed on his side of the pitch with his inability to track back after a move fw up the wing...hey its an opinion forum thats my opinion ...this guy Dave not u self sees fit to get all excited about my lack of enthusiasm and presumes Im just some plastic on the board who is a fairweather supporter or something Id have thought there were far more worthier causes for him to devote his excess energy to than castigating me for my ...lack of patience ? But ..takes all sorts eh .? Never mind.
No David I dont expect us to be winning the League after our first win. Borini in my opinion is not a quality player or I should say hasnt looked one in the role BR has asked him to fill. A quality professional will fill whatever role he is asked to adapt to by his coach for me Borini hasnt done that. Would u select him to play centre in front of goal if u read my post it implies yes Id give him that chance but if he still wasnt hitting the target and worse was getting in the way of Suarez doing so then ...where would u play him ?
So in answer to u question ...yes Im for real and have been since I started supporting Liverpool FC back in 1956 So whatever u wish to discuss quite happy to engage u in constructive debate.....OK ?
I'm not commenting to get in the middle of this mini debate, I just simpy want to state my opinion on the situation, because end of the day everyone is entitled to that..
It's fair to say Borini hasn't lit the world on fire, BUT it's only October 1st. He didn't play vs Norwich and came off early with an ankle injury in the Europa match that deemed it serious enough that he was doubtful for the Norwich match, but only because Yesil playd his first 81" minutes, did we probably include Borini with the hopes of not needing him, which panned out.
So, he's really had very little impact in 2 weeks now for that obvious reason. Then there's the tactical thing I keep harping on and some are starting to take notice, and hopefully with the ever and rapid progress of Sterling, Suso and Assaidi, even Pacheco, he will not be played wide anymore, making him Suarez backup to battle it out with Yesil..
While there will be many times where we need to tweak things and rest Suarez, the majority of the football we play under Rodgers is going to be 1 striker all the time, occasionally 2 if he shapes up a 4-2-3-1 which we saw last week with Pacheco included, so there's the chance Borini gets his starts..
As an avid Serie A watcher, obviously mostly Napoli, Milan and now Roma because of Michael Bradley, I can say that I thought Borini was fantastic there as a front 3 striker, ironically play wide right (though much different in epl) and he showed some fantastic, ruthless finishing..
To be fair, he's 21, he's just had an injury, he had a very short summer/holiday, and he's adapting to the highest level. That doesn't mean he can just not contribute and get by even if Rodgers fancies him, because Rodgers seems to have no qualms about calling players out for effort, desire and their place in the team.
All this said, and of note on the most recent "Being Liverpool" which I think we get a week earlier than most of you, they did focus some segments on Borini and spoke of how he has just played for 4 teams in 3 years, and has had to move I believe 6 times in the past 1 season.. he joked about it, but didn't seem so comfortable with it.. Granted that's not the same as an injury or personal emergency or family issue, it's certainly worth noting that it's hard to perform in anything you do in your career if your personal life isn't sorted, and that seems to be an issue..
As for the 10M, let's give that some time to die down a bit.. Unlike some trying to say Andy was bought for the future, as a 22 year old going on 23 for 35M, Borini is just 21, a much more dynamic talent, fixture in the Italian side and was accomplished in Serie A for such a young lad.. Plenty of teams wanted him, and conversely I'm not sure how many strikers were in the 10M range aside from Demba Ba with his release clause..
I say it over and over, I'm an extremely impatient person when it comes to certain things, and football is one of them, but I'm more than willing to wait for him to find his boots, and I'm delighted with this team despite the place in the table.. for now..
Colin - are you for real? I 100% agree with dsteer and that Borini needs time to settle. Actually Borini, Allen Sahin and Assaidi are our only new signings. Of them, Sahin has grabbed the headlines with the goals in the last 2 games. But I am sure you would have been slagging him on his debut eh? We ve just paid 10m for a player, have some patience, I guess you now expect us to win the league after our first win
Wow, I suppose you did not like the post, but no need to take a personal shot.
So okay you don't rate the young Italian. You in your wisdom have decided from watching less than half a dozen games can write off a 21 year old, while I just don't have the same confidence in my ability to make such quick judgments.
But come on, 10M, really such a waste of money and not worth keeping some faith with. Last term you kept faith with Kenny's much more expensive buys, and I agreed with you, but is it because this one is a BR pick, because he's Italian, or just in your estimation at 21 over the hill that you can write him off in October?
Sorry if that is a loaded question, not sure I know the lines between healthy football debate and when I've either put you to sleep or offended you!
dsteer...if all u can do is play' Follow my Leader' on this board its no wonder u posts have a tendency to put me to sleep. Look mate Borini has been crap since he arrived no bones about it hes 21 or 22 yrs old Im not sure which... some of our kids playing now are 16 17 18 19 and are dynamite!.Who cares what he did in some friendly in America pre season he hasnt done it in the REAL season ! Yes BR is showing some patience with the guy but wouldnt u if u just paid 10 mill for him particularly at a time when Kenny is still being criticised from certain sections for 'paying too much' ?
I think if BR is going to play him hed be best employed in the centre in front of goal BUT if that means hes going to be getting in the way of Louis then better just to write him off as a fairly expensive mistake.This before he starts costing us Prem points.
I try to give players the benefit of the doubt when I can. That is getting a little hard with Downing however. However I would think BR may throw him into the mix on Thursday either wide right or at LB to see if he gets a reaction. If the attitude is there (and in training where we can't see) then BR may stick with him for a while. But it is much harder to change a player who is 28 and expect him to play in a style he's not used to, than a youngster who can be molded to the managers liking.
On Enrique, and Borini as he’s been raised on the thread, I'd think we owe them a bit more patience. Enrique is never going to have the same ability of a Johnson going forward, but has proven before he can be a top player. A kick up the backside might help him along. But while we think of these players as robots who can turn on and off on demand, I wonder if other things are going on. I believe Enrique is expecting his first kid, which may have an impact. It's not an excuse but it can be a factor, so he needs to learn to get his head straight on the training pitch and on the pitch as its obvious BR demands nothing less than 100% from his players all the time.
Borini on the other hand, let’s get some perspective. Very young, and while he has spent time in the UK he’s still trying to settle in at a new club in a new city. It’s only just October so to expect him to be firing on all cylinders is a bit rich. Who knows if he'll settle and live up to the promise, but at this stage I'm pretty confident in BR's judgment on players. So if BR is willing to be patient then I think I'll follow his lead.
I saw the article in another rag. I'll say one thing about Rodgers. He's honest, brutally honest.
The article suggests that Enrique's problems are not injury issues. While I think you're right on Downing. Ok to a point but that's about it.
As a side point it might be a little easier for Rodgers to say these players aren't quite up to it as they weren't his signings. It'll be interesting to see how things pan out in the future whenthe side is 100% his work. Right now for example Borini hasn't exactly set the world on fire.
BUT it needs doing. For far too long we've bought below standard, for oo much money and failed to get them anywhere near a level where they contribute to an appreciable level.
- 2 Replies to Colyn
Noo Noo...sometime ago was watching an LFC vid that feat an interview with the great Bill Shankly and the man said that what appaled him most was a player/players who he could see didnt pull their weight . He stated that they were leaving the workload to their team-mates and he said and I quote...'IF I could Id ...PUT THEM IN JAIL !'...Think that says it all for THE LIVERPOOL WAY
btw agre with u 100% on the Borini issue this boy has done NOTHING to impress since he arrived and he wasnt exactly cheap at 10 MILL ? Maybe BR should be calling him into the office ....NEXT !!!
Noo Noo...I think its great that BR is starting to impose his personality and maybe I was wrong he isnt just a YES MAN for the owners....both these players merit a public boot up the arse.
Good to see BR has the confidence and authority to do the job on them ...they now at least know the score and cant whinge and whine about ...nothing was said to me about displeasure with my performances or lack of effort....and Im sure the playing staff these days address BR as 'Boss' ...and quite right that they should ! More of the same please BR !