Liverpool Message Board
Obviously everyone is frustrated with the draw yesterday vs Stoke at home, and is certainly one where we really did just about everything needed to get the 3, especially defensively and in the midfield, but lacking in the final 3rd... That said, I had wanted to start a thread about Suarez prior to Norwich, and he went nuts with his hattrick, but teams like Stoke particularly away, aren't going to let that happen..
So, what I noticed, which for me is a big difference despite the leap in talent from Norwich to Stoke, and physicality etc etc., was that our formation IMO was far too loose, despite winning just about every 50/50 and everything in the midfield (they were sound and rock solid, Allen-Gerrard)..
I thought at Carrow Road, we set up much more like a Rodgers from last year at Swans type shape which was 4-2-3-1, with emphasis on pass and move tiki taka resembling 4-3-3, but only with someone closer to Suarez, mainly Sahin, who by no accident found himself in the right spot for an easy tap in..
Yesterday, we really looked more a strict 4-3-3, with no true # 9, just a false 9, which sometimes is all Suarez is ever going to be because of his fiery, creative mentality.. I often thought he was playing much too far to the right, and aside from his lovely skill in nutmegging people, spinning them and dribbling around them, when he drifts wide, he unlike others who play that game, has a bit of a selfish mentality.. he must have taken 2-3 shots from impossible angles, lost the ball, or went down (on his own, or by challenge) and never helped creat a chance..
So, my issue is that Sahin or Gerrard, whichever, should have been pushed far more forward, and Suso/Sterling consistently staying flanked of Suarez to have him focus strictly on going forward and eyes on the goal.. It seemed to be ok for the first 45 and up until Suso came off for Cole, who just seemed to play wherever he wanted, and then Assaidi who needed more time to get into the flow... by this time, it seemed Suarez was exclusively to the right. I think, keeping it a more tight formation (with emphasis on the tiki taka) would prevent Suarez from doing this, and especially if Gerrard, Sahin Shelvey when available aren't able to or not making those "ghost" runs into the box..
That is precisely what Sterling, and Suso, presumably Assaidi are for and will do.. not Suarez. He needs to stay in the center, with the exception of turnovers or odd man breaks..
I've harped on it so many times just in general discussion that I thought Torres issues at Chelsea were stricly formation wise, and now that they are accomodating him, in addition to having a disgusting trio of Mata, Hazard and Oscar to flank and play behind him, he is looking closer to himself. Suarez will never be Torres, but he tries to do too much, and again, at Norwich, it seemed like the game was in slow motion for him, strictly focused on being up front...
Maybe next match day, we'll see something more like this, rather than Stoke, because I thought we carved them in every area, and then had nothing or nobody to deliver the goods... Alot of that can be credit given to Stoke for marking out Sahin or Gerrard when pushing forward, but there has to be some sort of control over Suarez and emphasis on him knowing he is our 9.. Until we add someone else, or introduce someone else, he's it, and he's wasting his own efforts, and chances for others by playing around in the wide areas, especially when he doesn't always look up for a pass or pull it back..
He drives me nuts.. do I love him as a player YES, but on the pitch he just becomes insane.. it needs to be addressed, either verbally, or tactically imposed upon.. That's up to BR IMO.. Otherwise, remove Sahin, and play Borini or Yesil up top with Suarez off him where he can play his games and trickery with someone else who only has eyese for goal (and yes I know Borini isn't looking good now) ..
Some here are convinced that you are an epic genius Utd fan in disguise, while I find this type of behavior/consistent contributions to be absolutely impossible as such, or you'd be a millionnaire, so I continue to believe you are a LFC supporter..
Having said that, I have to ask the question, do you read the full content of anyone's original post, or the following comments and go out of your way to give the most irrelevant / inaccurate answer humanly possible on purpose?
I'm not trying to be mean or have a go at you, I'm asking a fair and simple question..
If you spent 5 minutes reading my original comments in starting this thread, you could clearly see that I put alot of time, thought and effort into what I wanted to post, and your response, in response to others who've answered in line with the topic is about him "diving", and we're talking about tactics, changing them, and how to deploy him?
How does your answer, answer the question or dilemma I've posed? Will Suarez attempting to stay on his feet better change the fact he takes wild sharp angle shots, or not pass the ball enough when in dangerous but not prolific goal areas?
Suarez simply needs to be told "no more diving or they'll concequences"..
Heis a good player he shouldn't resort to such things as diving.. He's cried wolf for too long and it's just not working anymore..
I love Yesil based on what little I knew about him prior to the move, then having seen more in some videos and THEN what he did last international break in addition to a very good performance in the league cup vs WBA..
That said, I think his time could be coming very soon, perhaps after this break, however, if we're going to talk about a dominant figure up front, while he's bigger and stronger (maybe in a fist fight or drinking beer anyways), he wouldn't be able to command too much more space away from Suarez than Borini would..
So, going back to the initial theme and the chalk board, I think it has to come from either Stevie (who I'd prefer stay deeper), Sahin presumably and favored, and/or Jonjo pushed up as that support striker/CAM right behind Suarez.. This way, not only would that prevent him from dropping so deep to pick up the ball, but give him the noise in the back of his head there's someone else right there as well as 2 each side, so he'd be more apt to play the 1-2's or create the space direct..
Unless Rodgers doesn't mind this, which I can't really see considering how he didn't use Borini or include Yesil, then it's going to have to come from within, directly from Rodgers, or take an epic performance from Yesil to show he's the boss up front and allow Suarez to do what he does best, and force him to look up and pass more..
Guys, this and other threads show a remarkable degree of agreement amongst us as to how to improve our scoring chances and results. That being the case, why week after week are we dominating games then getting into the final third then going to pot? Surely BR can see that what we are saying is sound but he continues not to adopt our tactics. Suarez out wide and out of control, Gerrard too far back, Allen rarely over the half way line. Wing backs Wisdom and Johnson far too far forward and caught out time and again on the break? It´s frustrating! Time to sort it until we get that second striker hopefully January. We are a team of two parts at the moment and Tiki Taka relies on the team playing as one unit both in defence and attack. Defence should be no further forward than the centre line and it´s the midfield who need to speed up with Suarez told to look up, stay central, be aware of passing options and stop the theatrics! A scorer of fantastic goals but sadly not a fantastic goal scorer!
I forgot to add that I'd have a good look at Yesil if I were BR. I'm sure he already has and is considering it.
Borini can't dominate that front line, particularly while Suarez is there. You can instantly see who the senior person in that partnnership is. Find someone to reverse it and watch the difference
I think we're going in the same direction. Yes we need a striker but to add to that it's pointless having one that doesn't have the personality and ability to link with Suarez. Find that person and Suarez and Gerrard (Sahin too perhaps) will be logging assist after assist.
The other point about pushing a midfielder forward is they become static and easy to mark. They are far more dangerous when they break from deep. It's very very difficult to mark but it's a skill in its own right getting the timing right because when you commit to it you are fully commited and if it doesn't come off you're out of the game.
So, for me and I think we agree the midfield is fine especially as it was with Norwich where they were given license to break forward (at the right time) but having that striker we need will give Suarez the target (from a slightly wider position Armchair) but they will also occupy the opposition central defenders giving the midfielder that space to move into.
As examples check back at some the goals scored by Steve McMahon in particular. Scholes and Lampard are more modern day examples.
You made an interesting reference to Suarez selfishness and taking shots from impossible angles.
During the game Sterling had a shot from right side, fairly reasonable angle and he hit the post. Expert commentator had a go at his youth and naivete, saying he should have centred for someone in a better position and will learn as he gets older, more experienced.
Then Suarez does the exact same thing from a much worse position and gets nowhere near as close as Sterling did and the expert comment? Basically, Suarez did well, had no choice, is the sort of genius who could just possibly score from that impossible angle, bullshyte bullshyte bullshyte blah blah blah.
As long as idiots like this endorse such rubbish goal attempts Suarez will continue to think he can do anything.
Hopefully BR took him aside in the dressing room after the game and tore a strip or two, just to give him some perspective.
PS: good post Jason, good analysis. Especially about BOTH Gerrard and Sahin pushing much further forward. We need bodies in the box to create chaos and convert the chances we create.
What we need is a variation in choice of striker. Suarez isn't suited to the physical game he'd get at Stoke. So what we need is a strong powerful striker, in these sort of games..
Yet they can still score..