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  • Colyn Colyn Jan 14, 2013 08:49 Flag

    24 points - not in quality but in squad

    In Rodgers' post match interview he stated that we aren't 24 points behind United in terms of quality but we are in terms of squad.

    I thought this would make an interesting point of discussion.

    For me there are differences in quality but it's slightly more subtle that many will have you believe. Yes Van Persie is scoring at will but we also have quality in Suarez and he is not too far away from the Dutch marksman.

    The league table reveals a lot. Believe it or not we have actually conceded less goals than United, just. We've conceded 28 to their 29. That figure isn't The goals for tally is where the difference lies. We haven't scored enough, surprise surpise. Why?

    Two reasons stick out for me, the midfield and full backs. Yesterday and for many years actually we've seen United create a numbers advantage going formward through their full backs. This has stemmed from a rock solid platform in mifield allowing their fullbacks the freedom and confidence to push on and overlap the wide midfielder / winger depending on what system they play. This creates a two on one or overlap against the opposition full back. The exploit it all the time and has brough them so many dividends over the years.

    I would have never have put the likes of Cleverly and Carrick as a rock solid platform from which they can attack. Especially over a midfield that contains Gerrard but yesterday it was there for the first hour.

    Rodgers has a lot of work and for me the midfield must again take priority. At this level it's possible to dominate possession but the real trick and difficulty is doing it under pressure, we can't and getting penetration. This should come from full backs but we haven't seen enough of it. When it works goal finishers of the likes of Van Persie, Nistelroy etc. have an easy day.

    Food for thought and I welcome peoples thoughts and comments

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    • Hi Noo Noo

      To be fair to BR - we also attack a lot through our full backs who constantly bomb on to create width so I'm not sure if that is the answer.

      I think I'm right in saying that we have created more chances than Utd this season but obviously have scored less goals. When the likes of Utd & City create a decent attacking situation they convert a higher percentage than the rest.

      To me the reason is obvious. Regardless of what BR says, those teams have better players than we do in terms of both quality and experience. As a result they are more efficient/ruthless in converting chances/winning games.

      The teams that can attract the best players usually end up above those that can't. It was ever thus.

      • 1 Reply to Paddy
      • I agree the full backs are key in our game and any possession based game where you compress the defence into their own half or defensive thrd. You need a way to get behind them and the full backs are critical to this.

        While our full backs do press forward they do so without full control of the midfield. How many times have we seen the ball lost in the middle of the park and the opposition exploit the space left by our full backs who are out of position?

        To their credit seldom do you see United lose possesion and the full backs out of position. The platform is there for them.

        I also agree that we've had a cavern up front without a finisher. We've taken some steps forward there but I still think the midfield is a problem. I'm also sure that Rodgers is aware of it with his constant search for teh right balance in there. Sahin hasn't convinced and gone, Allen is under pressure, Gerrard is playing deeper, Henderson is getting game time . To me it all points to Rodgers searching for something.

    • Am I the only one who is getting rather tired of the BR "spin"?

      The main difference between Utd and us is that all their players have a winning mentality instilled into them, and that has come from Fergie.

      BR has been installed because he is nothing more than an FSG puppet who will spout David Brent spiel until the cow's come home !!

      Do you honestly think Fergie would have taken part in something like that awful "Being Liverpool" documentary?

      Until we have someone in charge who can instill the winning mentality then we will be nothing more than mid table mediocrity.

      Fergie will be laughing his t!ts off now, another Premier League manager in his pocket who daren't criticise "Sir Alex".

      Should have given KK more time !!!!

      • 1 Reply to andy w
      • Yea I noticed in the pre & post match interviews BR wouldn't go on the offensive against SAF in fact he was very sheepish. Even though SAF was being offensive and rude about us and our players.

        Whats that say about BR? Daren't even stand up for the club.

        The sooner we get rid of BR the better.. he'll make us a worse laughing stock than we already are and keep us as a midtable team..

        KK wasn't given as much chances as BR has.. so why makes BR so special? Or is FSG lining up Guardiola in the summer?

    • Oh I forgot to add. Have a look at the table and honestly, hand on heart think if the squad is good enough to be better than any of the sides above us.

      West Brom aside it gets very difficult from there on in.

    • Hi Jason

      You correctly mention BR's net spend but then mention a figure of £100m under Kenny which is presumably gross spend.

      If you are going to compare apples with applies then you need to compare with the net spend under Kenny. I didn't know what it was and so have just looked it up. According to this website (http://liverpoolfc.wikia.com/wiki/Kenny_Dalglish/Transfers) I was surprised to learn that the net spend under Kenny was £40.8m not the £100m+ that is regularly quoted.

      So not much difference after all.

    • I realise this was just throw away stuff in your rant, but...

      " [Chelsea] cant control the costs"

      Believe it or not, Chelsea have announced profit in their latest accounts. Cost control seems quite successful.


    • damn it. You've got me again Robert. I've fallen foul of the impression your rather "eccentric" owner portrays.

      Do you agree with the identity thing though? Although you could argue that evryone well knows that Chelsea is the whim (for want of a better word) of Abramovich rather than a club set in a direction by a manager.

    • I don't agree entirely, no. Certainly United have been successful for a generation and this is put down to the cast-iron rule of one old grumpy fart. But I'm not sure it follows everyone has to do it the same way.

      Chelsea has been successful for a decade without being directed by a powerful manager, unless you think we're still run by the ghost of Mourinho. Barcelona has been successful with different managers but one managerial continuum and playing philosophy. Once Shankly did his thing, Liverpool were successful under a number of managers for fifteen years.

      Liverpool fans are fond of saying that no-one is bigger than the club. If this is true (and it generally is) then it's true for the manager too. Surely the ideal structure is where the manager is an important part of the team with an influence on direction, but ultimately replaceable.

      I suppose Clough is another counter-example.


    • True but with Liverpool, Shankly set the thing going. The others carried that good work on. Shankly laid down the philosophies and gave the club it's identity. Him with the red nose, bags under the eyes and wont stop chewing has done the same. I suppose Abramovich has also done but it from a different position.

      I'm just wondering if it will catch up with him one day with players and new managers refusing to go because of Abramovich.

      For us we need someone to set the club rolling again and restart the whole process. Rodgers is the only one that's in a position to do that.

    • Hi Jason,
      I understand your arguement but we can all quote stats. For example instead of reciting KK only full season, based on his comeback to the end of the season our form would have made us Premiership winners.
      I know I've quoted this before, but I watched EVERY match last season and apart from one bad day at the office at Bolton we were basically very unlucky hence the number of woodwork strikes.
      If Downings volley had gone in, Richardson sent off Suarez scored etc in first game what would that have done for confidence?
      Anyway for all the bad luck we did have I never saw p!ss poor performances like with Villa ,Stoke, Swansea ,West Brom, Arsenal etc etc etc.
      So Sterling and Suso play more...so what? Sterling since signing his contract has disappeared in games and Suso is stll to lightweight...is it really good management to start with Suso against the likes of Stoke?
      Doesn't anyone else find it strange that BR only looks at younger players that he's worked with before Allen, Borini, Sturridge, I've a feeling this is a mangager that couldn't manage a RVP etc.
      Everyone quote the mantra of buying young players then selling them on for profit...so how does that help the club?
      Do you think Fergie thought this when he bought RVP? Or next year when he has got Lampard and Cole? No he just wants to win and compete every year.
      Yes it's fantastic to have the lowest average age for players in the Premiership and have Suso and Sterling playing regularly....but what will we win FVCK ALL !
      So my main arguement is that KK should have had at least one more full season before he went because I'm sure we wouldn't be where we are now.

    • nevertop the kop...A great post...very controversial but so are mine today ...I have had enough of BR and his timid managerial style he cannot motivate the Boys that much is clear. He is not imo the man to take the club fw we are hurtling backwards at an alarming rate one step forward two steps back ...too often.
      We cant beat anyone in the upper half of the table and look a long way off doing so ...this guys tactics are starting to make Rafas "hold-position" strategy look ...exciting ! His tactics were chaotic yesterday...He looke dabout as animated on the touchline yesterday as a snail ! No wondr there was no fire in The Boys first half...he is also far too ready to quietly put it on the lads rather than admit blame for his poor starting line up Yes SAF WANTS to win and he wants to win EVERY season 28 mill for RVP and he is 27 we pay 15 mill Joe Allen and 10 mill Borini Im sure the accountants on this board will be all too ready to site ...Yes but what about his wages ? ...You get what u pay for in this league lad and how many of u would say No to having RVP in our squad right now ? We are a BIG CLUB or we are about to forget that and adjust to being a feeder club for the Big 6 ? I think that is the real question and not have we made a modicum of progress this season or not and how many seasons it will or wont take till we are once again A POWER IN THE LAND This is a time for bold decisions by the owners and I think the boldes t they could make right now is to admit they appointed the wrong man for the job sack him and get somebody in who is up to the job because BR clearly is not that man.

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