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  • Loki Loki Jan 19, 2013 20:41 Flag

    Coutinho vs Ince

    Apparently we've put an 8 mil bid in for this kid as an alternative to Ince - this is very wrong.

    While Coutinho is good (not had a great year though) he has no affinity for the club, he's not English and will struggle to adapt to the EPL - I'm convinced of it!

    I know it gauls people that we let him go for a poxy 250k last year - but let's grit our teeth, pay the 8 million and get a player who is going to be a real asset to the team, no communication problems, no homesickness nothing but good points!

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    • What about Blackpool asking over the odds of what we feel Ince is worth? As is typical in England.. When we can get a foreign player for less whose of similar quality.

      Maybe if english clubs weren't so greedy then we could do serious deals.

      • 2 Replies to LFC_Armchair_Supporter
      • ps Tom Ince bagged another brace today at Wolves to earn Blackpool all 3pts he was MoM and one of his goals was a spectacular 25 yd piledriver !

      • BLACKPOOL FC are not greedy we as a club have a long history with them anybody recall Emlyn Hughes ? Shanks paid them the price for himand quite a few thougyt it pricey but not Mr Shankly. btw the price was 63,000 squid.
        Its difficult for any club to sell a player who is the heart and soul of their club would we want to sell Suarez right now for 40 mill ? Same with Blackpool ..whatever we bid them we get 35 % rebate sell on fee. Plus yes we let him go for 250,000 but so what that was what he was worth then. Blackpool gave him the playing time and turned him into the player he is that we want right now.
        As so many on the board are always so keen to point out to me ...FOOTBALL IS A BUSINESS and Must be run as a PROFIT making business should be run...and beware to any that dont. So why should Blackpool FC INC. sell us their prize asset that after all they not us created at a knock down price? There were and are lots of options we could offer them tosecure Tom Ince ends up on our books if we dont offer any of those options or justthe one option ..x sum of money take it or leave it and they decide ..we will leave it thanks then that is Imafraid their prerogative...right ? So we have Coutinho would he be a better buy than Ince at more or less the same price?.....Personally dont think so but I think time knows better than me so will just have to wait and see.

    • Loki...agreed just watched Ince put in a great performance for Blackpool v Cardiff he looks the biz and imo worth even more than 8 mill well worth paying te same money as we did for Sturridge imo.
      BUT unfortunately for us we are lumbered withthis clown Ian Ayre who will make any final decisions.Surely its time to get Ayre down the road ?

      • 1 Reply to colin
      • First I'll play the optimist in saying that I hope we're just in a stare down with Blackpool until the 25th hour and we end up getting down..

        Here's the middle of the road thought.. Downing was excellent today, he delivered a wonderful cross from the right, with his right foot, that Sturridge put home.. inch perfect. Downing is in very good form, the best he's ever been in a Red shirt, and the best he ever will be. That said, I think he'll still move on in the summer, but while he's playing this well, along with Sterling, and the flexibility of Suarez, Sturridge, Suso and even make shift w/ Shelvey/Henderson, we don't necessarily "need" (rather "want") him at the moment..

        Here's the comparison of the two and what should happen.. Coutinho is a world class talent, but he's struggled mightily to make any regular impact at Inter, and as a Serie A watcher, I often see sooo many young, foreign players from Europe, and especially South America adapt very well there, but he's not done so. That said, I think in the right system and right manager, he could develop into what people around Europe think he could and should be. To buy him now for 8M would be a gamble that will not show very much return this year, and make us hope for 2-3 years. To spend 8M on Ince right now (while nothing's sure) is about a sure thing as it gets, at least when comparing the two.. Ince knows the club, knows England, knows the physicality, weather, etc etc ..

        In an ideal world, I'd say let's take them both for 16M, let Ince work his way into the first team while we wait for Coutinho to get himself out of the reserves and potentially develop over 2 years.. But we're not going to, and that's not a scenario that will happen.

        To throw a wrench into it, perhaps Coutinho could surprise because talent and skill can't be tought, Brazillian players don't seem to struggle nearly as much as they would have years ago, and I'd point to Ramires of Chelsea who I thought was "OK" at Benfica, but very lightweight and without a true position.. Now, I'd rate him as one of their most key players.. Luiz followed suit, though more mature physically and a defender, but then you have Oscar too, he's not too shabby.

        End of the Day, Ince is the safe bet and we'd expect great things, Coutinho is a bit of a gamble where we'd "hope" for great things. As far as ceiling, Coutinho, as far as reality, Ince..

    • I see that there's been a bit of progress on this deal. It seems to be a lot cleaner than the Ince deal so it sounds like it's more likely to happen.

    • Just been reading that while Coutinho apparently wants to stay at Inter, Southampton are now also talking to them / him about a transfer.

      Interesting transfer policy they seem to have.

    • I agree with that Dave. As always, there is a big gap between the headline, the quote and the meaning.

      I see from the Yahoo transfer service that Southampton have joined the race so it is looking less likely now.

    • Southamptons policy? Buy anyone we drag our heels over?!

    • Loki, got to sort of agree with you here. Seems lately Ayre has come in for quite a bit of stick, but are people being fair?

      It seems to me the dislike of him may come down to the fact we did not get Dempsey back in August and or we over paid for players last season, although I'm sure others won't be shy about piling on their reasons for the disdain.

      However do we really know the full story about Dempsey? We know what the press reported, but is that ever even the real story let alone the full story. Besides in hindsight is it such a bad thing? We missed out on Clint, a good player, but not one who has set things alight since being at Spurs, and with a delay granted ended up with Sturridge who so far has not been that bad!

      I'd also point to what Arye has done. As Loki stated even though appointed by the Toxic Texan, he was instrumental in getting him and his poison dwarf friend out of the club. If he has done nothing else I say we owe him a very big thank you for that. But he's also overseen things off the pitch that we either can't see or ignore, but are critical to the success of the club. For example the deal with Standard and Chartered, the deal with Warrior, and a host of other commercial deals, all of which may not be very glamorous or sexy, or have the eye catching appeal of bringing in a top player, but are what will fuel the rise of our club.

      But even on the transfer dealings where he gets the stick, has he been that bad? Yes we missed out on a striker back in August and may well have overpaid during the KD/DC days, and that maybe down to his poor negotiating skills. But then again he did bring in Suarez after a very long and protracted negotiation and at a very reasonable price. Got top dollar for Torres, and has ensured this year many of our key core players (Agger, Skrtel, Suarez, etc) and potential future core players (Sterling, Suso, etc) have all signed up for the long term. And he's done this in an era of a shrinking wage budget, so I'd say not such bad work.

      I am interested in specifics on why others think he’s worth slagging off so much, and maybe I’ve missed something. But as Loki points out, if Parry is the benchmark, it’s really very hard to complain.

    • Don't speak to soon! Coutinho has just come out and said he doesn't want to leave Inter!

    • Saw that too. We'll see I guess but considering he was shipped out on loan last year he therefore hasn't been playing regularly for Inter. The possibility of more game time might prove attractive

    • Such negativity. He was excellent at Espanyol last season - the much lauded Muniain isn't any better. He has had to play under 5 different managers at Inter, a club which doesn't use direct width and was suffering in the shadow of the albatross that was Sneijder who wasn't performing anyway.

      I think he could be great in the EPL on the left of a 3 man attack, rotating with Suarez playing at number 10 or number 9 (if Sturridge isn't playing). Of you get Ince too, then you'll definitely have improved a fair bit in talent terms. Suso needs time to develop, and compared to Coutinho, looks more of a classical playmaker than attacker.

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