• Liverpool Message Board

  • Loki Loki Jan 19, 2013 20:41 Flag

    Coutinho vs Ince

    Apparently we've put an 8 mil bid in for this kid as an alternative to Ince - this is very wrong.

    While Coutinho is good (not had a great year though) he has no affinity for the club, he's not English and will struggle to adapt to the EPL - I'm convinced of it!

    I know it gauls people that we let him go for a poxy 250k last year - but let's grit our teeth, pay the 8 million and get a player who is going to be a real asset to the team, no communication problems, no homesickness nothing but good points!

    SortNewest  |  Oldest  |  Most Replied Expand all replies
    • Loki...agreed just watched Ince put in a great performance for Blackpool v Cardiff he looks the biz and imo worth even more than 8 mill well worth paying te same money as we did for Sturridge imo.
      BUT unfortunately for us we are lumbered withthis clown Ian Ayre who will make any final decisions.Surely its time to get Ayre down the road ?

      • 1 Reply to colin
      • First I'll play the optimist in saying that I hope we're just in a stare down with Blackpool until the 25th hour and we end up getting down..

        Here's the middle of the road thought.. Downing was excellent today, he delivered a wonderful cross from the right, with his right foot, that Sturridge put home.. inch perfect. Downing is in very good form, the best he's ever been in a Red shirt, and the best he ever will be. That said, I think he'll still move on in the summer, but while he's playing this well, along with Sterling, and the flexibility of Suarez, Sturridge, Suso and even make shift w/ Shelvey/Henderson, we don't necessarily "need" (rather "want") him at the moment..

        Here's the comparison of the two and what should happen.. Coutinho is a world class talent, but he's struggled mightily to make any regular impact at Inter, and as a Serie A watcher, I often see sooo many young, foreign players from Europe, and especially South America adapt very well there, but he's not done so. That said, I think in the right system and right manager, he could develop into what people around Europe think he could and should be. To buy him now for 8M would be a gamble that will not show very much return this year, and make us hope for 2-3 years. To spend 8M on Ince right now (while nothing's sure) is about a sure thing as it gets, at least when comparing the two.. Ince knows the club, knows England, knows the physicality, weather, etc etc ..

        In an ideal world, I'd say let's take them both for 16M, let Ince work his way into the first team while we wait for Coutinho to get himself out of the reserves and potentially develop over 2 years.. But we're not going to, and that's not a scenario that will happen.

        To throw a wrench into it, perhaps Coutinho could surprise because talent and skill can't be tought, Brazillian players don't seem to struggle nearly as much as they would have years ago, and I'd point to Ramires of Chelsea who I thought was "OK" at Benfica, but very lightweight and without a true position.. Now, I'd rate him as one of their most key players.. Luiz followed suit, though more mature physically and a defender, but then you have Oscar too, he's not too shabby.

        End of the Day, Ince is the safe bet and we'd expect great things, Coutinho is a bit of a gamble where we'd "hope" for great things. As far as ceiling, Coutinho, as far as reality, Ince..

    • I see that there's been a bit of progress on this deal. It seems to be a lot cleaner than the Ince deal so it sounds like it's more likely to happen.

    • Don't speak to soon! Coutinho has just come out and said he doesn't want to leave Inter!

    • Saw that too. We'll see I guess but considering he was shipped out on loan last year he therefore hasn't been playing regularly for Inter. The possibility of more game time might prove attractive

    • Loki, got to sort of agree with you here. Seems lately Ayre has come in for quite a bit of stick, but are people being fair?

      It seems to me the dislike of him may come down to the fact we did not get Dempsey back in August and or we over paid for players last season, although I'm sure others won't be shy about piling on their reasons for the disdain.

      However do we really know the full story about Dempsey? We know what the press reported, but is that ever even the real story let alone the full story. Besides in hindsight is it such a bad thing? We missed out on Clint, a good player, but not one who has set things alight since being at Spurs, and with a delay granted ended up with Sturridge who so far has not been that bad!

      I'd also point to what Arye has done. As Loki stated even though appointed by the Toxic Texan, he was instrumental in getting him and his poison dwarf friend out of the club. If he has done nothing else I say we owe him a very big thank you for that. But he's also overseen things off the pitch that we either can't see or ignore, but are critical to the success of the club. For example the deal with Standard and Chartered, the deal with Warrior, and a host of other commercial deals, all of which may not be very glamorous or sexy, or have the eye catching appeal of bringing in a top player, but are what will fuel the rise of our club.

      But even on the transfer dealings where he gets the stick, has he been that bad? Yes we missed out on a striker back in August and may well have overpaid during the KD/DC days, and that maybe down to his poor negotiating skills. But then again he did bring in Suarez after a very long and protracted negotiation and at a very reasonable price. Got top dollar for Torres, and has ensured this year many of our key core players (Agger, Skrtel, Suarez, etc) and potential future core players (Sterling, Suso, etc) have all signed up for the long term. And he's done this in an era of a shrinking wage budget, so I'd say not such bad work.

      I am interested in specifics on why others think he’s worth slagging off so much, and maybe I’ve missed something. But as Loki points out, if Parry is the benchmark, it’s really very hard to complain.

    • Just been reading that while Coutinho apparently wants to stay at Inter, Southampton are now also talking to them / him about a transfer.

      Interesting transfer policy they seem to have.

    • Southamptons policy? Buy anyone we drag our heels over?!

    • Such negativity. He was excellent at Espanyol last season - the much lauded Muniain isn't any better. He has had to play under 5 different managers at Inter, a club which doesn't use direct width and was suffering in the shadow of the albatross that was Sneijder who wasn't performing anyway.

      I think he could be great in the EPL on the left of a 3 man attack, rotating with Suarez playing at number 10 or number 9 (if Sturridge isn't playing). Of you get Ince too, then you'll definitely have improved a fair bit in talent terms. Suso needs time to develop, and compared to Coutinho, looks more of a classical playmaker than attacker.

    • No idea of the ins and outs of this potential deal, but I'd not read much into the statement he'd like to stay. As I understand it Inter are looking for cash, so by coming out with the statement he's not offending the local fans if the deal does not go through, as he can always say he wanted to stay but it was the club who was looking to sell. What players say before and after transfers I take with a huge pinch of salt.

    • I agree with that Dave. As always, there is a big gap between the headline, the quote and the meaning.

      I see from the Yahoo transfer service that Southampton have joined the race so it is looking less likely now.

    • View More Messages