Liverpool Message Board
Although I think that the blame should lay squarely with the players for that diabolical performance, it seems a few of us blame BR and it occurred to me - it is expected that he should be perfect in everything he does. He isn't permitted any leeway whatsoever. Every loss is a reason for him not being suitable for the job. Yet we have won 8 out of 12 games, not bad for a team in obvious transition.
There isn't a manager alive who doesn't make mistakes in team selection, transfers, tactics, the colour of suit they wear, etc. but there seems to be no acknowledgment of this by a lot of us. Why is that?
Hey Jason...back before the Millenium there was a tendancy for old retired geezers like me to stay up in the small hours when they couldnt get to sleep, and surf the net after all the kids were tucked up for the night. Old people have grey hair too so hence the expression "silver surfer". Now that some water has flowed 'neath the bridge since Sunday, I gotta say my main worry on reflection is our lack of goalkeeping cover and particularly if, as I expect, Pepe leaves for Barca in the summer. Frightening!
Loki, yes he's allowed to make a mistake, and in fact a few so long as he gets it right most of the time, which I think he does. But to be charitable I should also say some of our supporters also are allowed a mistake or two also, so don't want to round on anyone.
For example, people complain he had a go at the players, as they did when he rounded on Downing for example, yet yesterday same supporters said he should have started Stewie. So was he wrong yesterday, or wrong before, not sure it’s possible to be wrong both times.
Or, let’s talk about Carra, the man who did not play, therefore cannot be blamed for anything that happened in the match, and therefore would have been the savior if BR had only enough sense to actually play him. But how many posts have we seen from many of the same supporters who recon it’s time to put the legend out to pasture, or others who say we should give youth a chance.
Or how about why BR did not learn the lesson from the last round which resulted in an anemic showing only saved once Suarez came on. But he obviously did not learn that lesson even though he started not just Suarez, but Sturridge also.
Bottom line, while I do think it was the players who let us down as they had not learned the lesson not from the last round of the cup, but the trip to Stoke that when you come up against strong determined sides willing to use a bit of muscle, and ref who allows the more physical side of the game, you don't shy away from the fight but buckle down and show us what your made of, it’s also the manager who had to take responsibility. The buck stops with Bucky. Mistakes happen, and they happen to the best of clubs, players and managers and the question is what you do next not what you can't change now it’s happened. But we should also think how wrong we are sometimes. It’s easy to see things after the fact, but there are few who can honestly say they've got perfect judgment.
- 1 Reply to dsteer_lfc_68
dsteer....Dave STOKE MANSFIELD OLDHAM not to mention WBA first game of season away these were, all debacles against hard nut battling sides that we thought we could easily overcome with tici taca relentlessly applied...I believe that every manager in The Prem now who has seen those games will be convinced get at Liverpool from kick off and give them a bit of stick especially the players they regard as "a bit soft"...look at the tackle on Joe Allen after 30secs ...and youve got them beat. Whats really worrying is they would probably be right in that assumption.
Silver surfer.. never heard that one, I like it..
No I really had no inside info, despite all my digging on all sorts of stuff. But, I hadn't even considered what you mentioned about him having a niggle or slight knock.
At this point, I'm slowly but surely losing faith that Coates can be here, or should.. I think he's shown brilliant glimpses and put in a wonderful performance vs City, where only an awful mental error by Skrtel prevented us from a 2-1 win. I think he's still young and maybe a loan would be best. But, since you rate him (I still want to) then in a way you'd have to have been ok with him starting yesterday then? I know you say Carra could started and organized better, and I agree 100%, but again, with the uncertainy of Glen Johnson, I just see it was a very safe preventative measure. Or, we'd be faced with Robinson, Downing or Agger at left back, and I don't like any 3 there..
In hindsight, after watching the match again last night, I can lay some blame for Carra not starting, but unfortunately it is hindsight, and I was ok with the starting lineup from the get go.
Regarding some of Rodgers public comments on players and things like that, if you recall, we had a Rodgers vs Sterling thread started here, where Rodgers was tossed under the bus and everyone assumed he'd put his foot in his mouth, well, who won that battle? (And it was no battle, just twisted that way by some) Raheem signed a 5 year deal.. Then just 3 days ago, we have Downing come out and say "the boss" words about him publically and in private meetings has been a kick up the backside. Gerrard said on Sky, I like BR's "bottle".. that's no PR or smile for the camera talk imo.. As for the younger players, they're in the senior squad, they should be able to take it and will, I'm confident in that. If this was the reserves, or U-18, then I'd be vehemently against that and say he's wrong and could damage them.
For players like Coates, Wisdom, Allen, Borini, who are all fully grown internationals (wisdom at u-21), to not be able to handle that kind of talk, would say that I don't think they're cut out for first team football, and maybe should be down the road and not Liverpool Football Club.. This is just my opinion and a style I am used to as the American sports fan.. This is common as as the world is round over here, and some players skip school, ages 17 etc and go right to the pros. I'm sure they don't like it, and I can say for sure, our veteran players / captains do and say far worse behind the locker room doors.. And, I'm talking physical sometimes something like a fist !
Again, just me and my beliefs.. As for Kenny, he did go on one or two similar rants, one in particular after Bolton where he said they were disrespectful and poor, and if they didn't show something else, they'd never put on the Red shirt again and be shipped out (not sure of the date or Jan window). That's a bit harsh, and I LOVED IT! I'm a fan of it..
Loki ...probably because a lot of us adore te FA CUP and we have just been dumped out of it by a club two whole divisions below us!
If we blow it in the Europa Cup fielding yet more weakened sides withthe excuse that we must rest our important players for more important league fixtures then we wil be out of that one too ! Then what are we left with ? We have already spoiled any chance of a good day out at Wembley this season..last season we had TWO !
So what will we be chasing ? What will be left a shot at a top 4 spot...I think we will have a much clearer idea of what chance that after this next week...but if that top 4 slot suddenly becomes dependent on others and them losing consecutive games in a row for us to have any chance then this is going to be an awful anticlimatic end to our season.
- 1 Reply to colin
I don't think there was any lack of focus today on his part, nor disrespect in who he picked.. that was actually one of 2 sides I predicted in the Oldham thread..
That said, 2 things to consider:
- We had 3 players 21 years old and younger at the back, and aside from Carra, who was spared for a reason, he was handcuffed with no Enrique (which is a longer issue), Glen, Agger or even Flannagan who's injured now, though not terrific imo. The back was a shambles, totally shocking and Jones was horrifying..
- Second, we had the late game today, Arsenal played early the day before, and we go there in 2 days. What if (this is hindsight) he'd played Gerrard and Lucas from the start, we still lost, and one of them wasn't available for Arsenal and City? We'd all be criticizing him for that, myself included.
This was always a tricky fixture, we got them 5-1 last year, harshly on 3 own goals at our place, so revenge is a great motivation, and clearly everyone knew that..
In reality, with Sturridge, Suarez, Borini, Sterling and Henderson in support, up front, we should have score 3-4, but aside from Suarez it seems not one of them, Jordan aside, could even control a ball, let alone put one in today.. They were almost as shocking as the back 4 and Jones..
I'm perfectly fine with being labelled a big Rodgers advocate, and defending him more often than not, because that's the truth, so I thought based on what he had available at the back, faced with so little time for Arsenal, he picked a good enough side.. That's obviously just an opinion, and seems most disagree, which is of course absolutely fine.. but I think the team was shocking today, like Abu, Loki and some others.. They let themselves down, they let him down, and they let 2500 traveling fans down, along with us.. It was a diabolical performance and I couldn't even give a man of the match.. maybe Suarez or Robinson who actually played well and could have had a goal or 2 assists.
I'm big believer in holding players accountable, I know it's different here, but we're SO harsh on our athletes, and I hold our LFC players in the same regard.. I said Gerrard should have been sat on the bench early doors for some terrible performances, and now he's at the top of the league in assists, with 4 (or 5?) goals and not missed a minute in the league..
Consistency from the group is needed, just as much as it is from the top. If he didn't prepare them, or lightened up in training, then he's 100% to blame, but I don't think anyone could even imagine that, and again, we knew today an upset was ripe to happen. It annoys the FCUK out of me to be blunt! I'm just annoyed with them all, even Ian Ayre, and he's got 0 impact on today!
And, while I'm laying most of the blame on the players, I will say, BR just learned a harsh lesson on the disappointment of this situation. So maybe he should have played Carra, Lucas, and Gerrard, and dealt with Arsenal as it came.. Ironically, I'd be calling him an idiot, for that. Let's hope we show up, and I really expect us to, for Arsenal, and then carry it to City!
We won't be taking Zenit lightly, or they'll play us off the pitch and right into Siberia..
Herps I blame the players for that debacle. And a very spirited Oldham side who dug in and defended well.
Jones had a shocker in goal, clearly lacking confidence. Borini anonymous too and our set piece defending appalling. That really is an area that BR needs to address. BR had to rotate with Wednesday in mind and to be honest I was surprised to see Suarez start but in hindsight we needed him.
We still lack creativity, resorting to hopeful long range pit shots too often which usually end up in the stands.
At the end of the day you just have to hand it to Oldham. They earned it......
- 2 Replies to Anyone But United
Yeah...you got it nearly spot on Abu....we did hand it to Oldham,... they were gifted it, and as much as we can point a finger at this player and that player, ultimately the "buck" stops with the guy who calls the shots....the Manager. The team selection caught me out 'cos I was expecting a solid defence but with no Suarez or Sturridge in the usual hope that if we are chasing the game we can wheel the big guns out late on. What I didnt expect was a defence comprising a lot of youngsters pitched in against an Ale House team of hard running bruisers with just Martin Skirtl trying to bring a sembelance of order to proceedings. This sort of "banana skin" encounter was taylor made for Carra but he was left back for the day...on the bench. Shelvey too should have been on 'cos he also seems to know how to handle himself when the going gets rough, and we really did get roughed up a lot. In fact the tables were only turned when Gerrard, Downing and Shelvey came on, rather too belatedly in my opinion. Yeah Brendan is allowed to make mistakes, but FFS what I really cannot accept is him slating the "young guns" in public whilst doing the "Pontus Pilate" and washing his hands of any involvement by himself in this sad affair. If he was man enough to accept his portion of responsibility for this debacle I might find myself able to cut him some slack on the grounds that he's a young manager and we are in transition etc etc. At least we now have a very, very diminished set of targets to aim at which should hopefully ensure our players and manager now remain focused for the rest of the year, and the players do not become over tired by being in too many competitions. Is 7th in the Prem and a decent run in the Europa too much to hope for? I hope not but I've got to say that after todays publicly pronounced "dont blame me" attitude Brendan Rodgers has very little credit left in my book.
well when Bucky talked of" fourth" I was hoping he meant league position, but it seems he meant that will be the round in which we'll exit both domestic cups!
And as we seem to about to sign another "moneyball"player as opposed to an experienced "matchwise" one can I suggest that if bucky is so obsessed with youth why not go and manage in the nextgen?
It's not just one mistake is it though? If it was then fair enough.. Thing is he's getting paid a lot and is in a huge privelidge to manage LFC.
The paying fans pay a lot to see LFC and expect good performances.
We';re in the league position we're in cos of Rodgers.. he decides on the squad, team selection, tactics..
Also FSG bear a lot of responsibility for hiring him in the first place. I'd have preferred a more seasoned manager.. and when we've a winning squad for several yrs then hire someone like Brendan as he'd not have to do much other than just play the same tactics etc..
I disagree that he wasn't to blame at least in part for today's performance but yes, he's allowed mistakes.
I personally stand by he needs a minimum of 2 years before being judged - the last thing we need now is another change of manager. Equally I think it's fine to point out if someone thinks he's made a mistake for debate if nothing else.
I must say that, unless I've missed it, I haven't seen anyone calling for his head following today's result. The majority seem to feel that he got his selection wrong which I agree with.