Liverpool Message Board
Seems to me that Rodgers is content on drawing games, that could've and should've been wins..
This is the side of Rodgers I dislike he doesn't seem to have it in him to get the team motivated enough to go out and crush teams no matter who they are..
He needs to get us dominating from the kick off, and keep it going until the final whistle. Have we the players to do it is also another bone of contention?
- 2 Replies to LFC_Armchair_Supporter
Thanks Armchair lets keep this thread nice and high and see how it goes.
To me it seems you're blaming and criticising a manager, who's only been in place for 6 months for taking a squad that was only good enough for 8th and probably worse had the season been longer. He's not had anywhere near the funds required to take an 8th or worse placed team and elevate them to PL champions and what's worse is you've only given him 6 months to do it!
Get real sunshine.
I'm fully expecting you to now come back and blame FSG for not giving Rodgers a transfer kitty of £1 billion. But as I said this thread will be cyclic. Lose a game you'll be screaming for heads to roll. I honestly hope that we can keep this thread high enough and at the same time win the PL with Rodgers and FSG. Suck eggs woul dbe my repost!
I'm tempted to try and keep this thread at the top of our little board as a reminder to everyone how things fluctuate. Losing to Oldham was bad, it was a bad day at the office but two reasonable results at Arsenal and City and it's a little more rosey it seems.
Oh what fun
I see, so after clarification I see you think you're being as clear as mud, and offering a consistent argument. I'll leave aside the fact an argument that needs clarification in order to make it consistent really can't be consistent in its original form otherwise why would it need clarifying?
But let’s just focus on what you've actually said (to clarify your argument) and see if that makes any more sense. Unfortunately for me, in terms of being a logical argument I think it still does not stand up.
Why players like Henderson who has succeeded elsewhere and at junior International level need extra time, but Borini doesn't, even though he was successful in Italy and also has both junior and senior level international experience with Italy, is again just not consistent.
The next thrust from you is that "anyone who’s watched football" must agree with you either suggests those who don't agree with you don't watch football, or maybe just are not watching it in the right way? I'm not sure which, and rather than start some competition of who has played more, or at a higher level or who watches more than the other, let me just say I do have a keen interest in football, and I’m sure you do also, and leave it at that.
But that is really what it comes down to; all we're talking about is your opinion. Whether you think it’s a more educated opinion than others because of your years of playing in the Sunday league, or the years watching live or on the box, end of the day it’s just an opinion. And, I'd submit since those paid to make such judgments are not perfect, I find it very hard to understand why someone like you can tell me definitively that someone is not good enough with so little evidence.
Now of course you could be correct (a broken clock is right twice a day!) and maybe Borini does not make it. Maybe I should bow down to your wisdom as you tell me you never were critical of Lucas, but then again I'm not sure I remember you defend the lad either, so whose to know whether your hindsight is really as good as your foresight.
For me I’ll give Borini and BR’s recruits some time to settle and then judge, as I did with Henderson and others. Some will work out, some won’t, but I’ll take those who think they know all, with a healthy pinch of salt, that is unless it’s been 12 hours since that broken clock was last telling the right time!
Dave, the arguement is consistent but to put it in simpler terms,
Player A's (Apples) need time for judgement ie Henderson and Downing because they were proven to be good players elsewhere before,Henderson has played at every level for England and is U21 Captain and Downing was Villa's player of the year the year we bought him hence they don't become shyte overnight!
Player B, (Oranges) Players you don't need to give 18 months to assess because you can tell after a month ! Borini fall's straight away into the Vorinin category, i.e. anyone whose watched football can see he's not gonna be anywhere near Sturridge, this is a guy who since signing a full time contract with Chelsea has scored 15 goals in 5 years !
With regards Lucas I never criticised him because again came to us as an attacking midfielder and U21 Brazillian captain, Rafa changed his game to a defensive midfielder and now he's the reason we are showing consistency again now he's back.
Hi PS, do you have a link or anything as it sounds like an interesting interview. I'm sure he spent much of it defending his work as one would expect, however there is always two sides to these things.
Colin, I never said you were critical of Lucas, I merely pointed out that many on this board, and in phone ins etc. were, but as the post was not directed at you, as I clearly stated, I'm not sure why you'd get your back up on this one.
Again, and it’s really a simple point, if you make an argument it should at least be consistent. In your case you are being consistent, you think you can see if a player is the business in a very short period of time, and if he's not you think it’s best to be rid of him.
Fair enough while I disagree with you as I think there are many factors that are in play when a player first comes to a new club which do not allow you to see him full potential until he's had a chance to bed in, but I cannot fault your logic or consistency in argument.
However the person my post was directed to was not consistent. For one player he needs 18 months to see if quality can shine through, while the next less than half a season which included an extended period out of the squad due to injury seems to be plenty of time to make final judgment.
Hi Colin & Dave
I heard a really good interview with Damien Comolli on this subject.
He expained how the deal to signed Carroll worked (I can tell you more on that if your interested) and then went on to say that he totally refutes any suggestion of "failed" signings.
His point was - when signing young players - you have to accept that some will take longer to settle in and develop into top class players than others. He gave the examples of Henry & Pires at Arsenal, Bale & Modric at Spurs. It's all down to spotting the talent in the first place.
Time will tell whether DC or BR has a better track record at spotting that talent I guess.
dsteer...Dave this is not the first time I have posted thisstatement..find me a single post over the entire time Lucas has been on the books that I criticised the lad this throughout a paeriod where he too some terrible barracking onthis board...why didnt I lay into him like so many others....because I thought he was "the business"...end of. I happen to think like others on this board that BORINI hasnt got what ittakes to make it and Sturidge has...dont think where players are concerned there is a set time period within which they should all be evaluated ...why persist with someone u feel isnt ever going to make it ? Intuition sometimes tells u more than stats ever can.
It was actually to Never, but is really a simple point of making an argument that is consistent. When rating two players, player A and player B, if the argument you can't rate player A until an 18 month bedding in period is up, it’s not really consistent to say after just a few months and a handful of games that player B can written off.
It’s not a question of whether Borini is the business or not, it’s a question of how and when is the fair and consistent way to assess him and his contribution. It’s not as if we’ve not been down this path before on the board, or do I need to remind how woeful the judgments were of Lucas before he became such an essential member of the squad.
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