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  • Jason Jason Feb 1, 2013 20:37 Flag

    Andy.... It's time.. (sorry)

    I have nothing against the kid as a person, never did, but I never wanted him, I hated his purchase, and I never thought he'd cut it at Liverpool, especially when we'd been accustomed to some great players up top. I've always said this, even despite differences of opinion, so if nothing else, I've been consistent.

    Obviously the answer is no, but I have to ask, and yes it's sarcastic, hopefully the humor will be found too... Do you still think Andy Carroll will "come good" for Liverpool?

    I suppose the question is, which I personally don't, and can't imagine several others care, will he come good at WHU?

    What this does do (assuming he agrees to terms and wages or we get stuck with a taller heavier Joe Cole, with more hair, who has more goals btw), is free up another 60-70K in wages, and with whatever the end fee is, will go directly back into the chest for Rodgers to spend in the summer..

    And yes, Rodgers will be here in the summer. Considering we didn't add Ince, but presumably will, let's say Andy gets 15M, and FSG stump up another 20-30M, we could very well see ourselves adding one of the "ELITE" attacking players in Europe.

    Table wise, and Champions League wise, we are clearly not where we want to be yet, but after spending alot in January, compared to teams above us, and bigger ones in Europe even, further money available and us building a more skilled, talented and faster squad, will improve our chances of recruiting bigger and better names.. Perhaps it's ok to dream of XYZ player until Summer comes!

    Sorry Andy, perhaps a full time change in scenery and hairdo, will make him "come good" and score 30 goals..

    Obviously if David Sullivan is lying, or gave the interview from the pub, I need to discard this post.


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    • " one of the "ELITE" attacking players in Europe.
      ".. Thats the problem isn't it..

      Other clubs could sign more than one ELITE player in Europe and we could barely afford one.. If thats the case..

      Just goes to show what paupers we have as owners at LFC..

      • 1 Reply to LFC_Armchair_Supporter
      • Maybe the math didn't add up..

        15M (guestimate) on Carroll, plus his wages saved, brings around 20M.. Cole and Sahin's wages gone, another 6-8M, then another 20-30M from the Owners.. aka the "paupers"..

        So, those numbers are roughly around 50M, give or take, and several world class players can be had for 20-30M.. then there are others in the 40+ range, and 50+ range.. Don't think we'll see many more of those in years to come.. So say we spend 25+ on ONE, add Ince, and add another for 15-20M, that's again roughly 50M spent.. for 3 players. Not enough I suppose?

        I also suppose, us, LFC & FSG, spending 20.5M, third behind QPR 22.4M and Newcastle 20.5M, on multiple players, vs our 2, really shows what "Paupers" they are.. Even though City spent almost 0, Spurs spent 0, Chelsea spent 8M, Everton spent 3M..

        Perhaps when making a comment of how many "elite" we can buy, vs other clubs, you should take into account, what other clubs already have at their disposal, while we've been rebuilding for only 1 season under a new manager..

        Chelsea can afford to buy 2, because they may only need 2, same for United and City.. We need several more players, and they can't all be the "ELITE" costs because you can't build a squad for the present and future by buying just one player..

        Eh, I continue to ask myself why I bother..

        Anyways, goodbye Andy, I hope. (sorry to those who don't like that)..

    • jason...irregardless of how Andy fares rest oif this season think it highly likely he will end up back with us...just dont see WHU matching the salary he is on with us . I still see him as the great...PLAN B evenif only coming off the bench. WHU have an agreement to buy but it doesnt inc Andy having to sign for them and I assume he is going to want more or less same money to within say a thou or so of his current with us.
      What I see as a pos alternative is the loan being extended and no transfer clause at all simply to save his wages and save face for BR ...Which I think would be a mistake for the club and BR who should be big enough to put any bad feeling behind him and Andy and try and nurture Andy into becoming the player Kenny obviously thought he would be ...who knows maybe by end of this season we will be glad to have him back if he shows good form...Swansea are nobodys mugs and WHU were well out of form last result before this 501 whupping from Arsenal..Andy comes back for them and ...WHUMP from the forehead and 3 pts in the bag...would that we had have him startat Oldham hed have sorted out that big lump of a centre forward they had ...u recall the way he defended set pieces ? You think that big lump would have been able to push him around ?

      • 1 Reply to colin
      • Colin, the fact is, the game we play now is all dependant on mobility of players and I'm afraid Carroll will not have that mobility as long as he's got a hole in his @rse. He doesn't have the pace either. To be fair, I wanted him to be given more of a chance but he hasn't so as far as I am concerned he is no longer a liverpool player. He should also have played the full 90 in the cup final, but hey-ho. It's not to be!

        If we flog him for the reported £18 mil then we can have another class forward for the same bunce in Damaio who would fit our game to a tee! Anyone who saw the Olympics could see that and I think he will be a star-striker someday soon whoever he plays for. Spurs won't be back in for him either it's said.

    • Jason..u are right Messi is a product of the Barca academy also u probably know that Barca have never accepted paid sponsor advertising on their teams shirts ?Plus they donate quite a large sum to UNICEF each year. Can u see Barca ever selling Messi on and reaping some huge profit which it doesnt plough back into the club ? No...Messi will be with Barca for the peak of his career...will Suarez be with us for his ? Stevie has been and for that I thank him and salute him and Im hoping that Suarez is as seriously RED as he says he is . The reason given for Barca not accepting paid sponsor shirt adverts is that... It demeans the club which is the representative of the people of Catalonia....CLASS ACT I'd call them , wouldnt you ?

    • Colin,

      For the record, and I'm sure you realize this, while I don't fancy him as a player personally, nor for a style I personally like, I have nothing personal against Andy, so I'm not trying to dump all over him.. That said, you believe in him and I don't, at least not in many environments/squads.. So it's perfectly fine to disagree, because I think at the age of 21 and 6 league matches, Borini deserves as much chance as Andy did, and some still want, despite changing leagues, being so young, and recovering from a fractured foot. I think it's only fair..

      I can't promise he'll ever materialize into what I saw from him at Roma in Serie A, but I have hopes because he's young and skilled, and I feel very certain, as in 100%, he'll be an LFC player next season, and the same certainty Andy will not..

      I did see that Ince scored again, and I really wanted him, so my thinking is, while trying to think like them, is that they felt with a pretty dramatic upturn in form with Downing, playing time would have been the issue, which it was the last time when we left him go. So, I figure based on my guess, is that Downing will be moved on, and Ince will come in during the summer, and have the full opportunity to make that spot his vs good competition in Sterling, Suso, Assaidi and if Suarez/Sturridge play there..

      That said, I think they'd been tracking Coutinho for some time based on what I've read. Again, I can't say he'll set the league on fire, and at age 20, we won't see him feature all too much, unless he vastly exceeds early expectations. That said, as a 20 year old, with over 100 senior experiences at Inter Milan, and a great loan spell with Espanyol in La Liga, his skill and promise is certainly there.. He can play wide and centrally, and has some amazing dribbling skills, with shots from distance and an eye for a pass..

      To be honest, Serie A, is not a good league for a player like that. The league/style is far too slow and technical, whereas La Liga is quite wide open, where he did really well, and the EPL is quite wide open and at an extreme pace. So, on paper, and in theory, he seems a great fit and future product at the same time.. We really lack that little tricky player that can unlock a defense, and he can possibly be that player..

      If you look at this list, we have some fierce competition for players who want/can play, and play in that role, so buying him says something.. Suso, Jonjo, Assaidi, now Coutinho, and even Allen to a certain degree.. That's one hell of a young list of talented footballers for 1-2 specific roles, and Assaidi the old man of the group at 23.. the rest 22yo - 18 yo..

      It excites me, and based on what I've seen, after settling a bit, I'm very hopeful he's a special player..

    • sofa..think that all this 3he doesnt fit my tactics" was a load of nonsense ...I think for whatever reason there is bad blood between BR and Andy C. and the loan was the easiest way to rig a solution and just ship himout of Anfield rather than have the matter simmer on all season long.

    • Colin,
      Again, I'm with you on Ince.. I wanted him actually before I wanted Sturridge when I heard they were the main two targets, and ultimately, I think we will get him in the summer, at least I hope so. In the meantime, again while I can't say what he'll do, we got a massive talent in Coutinho who won't prevent us from getting Ince in the summer, presumably when Downing is moved on.. We still have wages and space to move, especially considering Sterling can't get on the pitch right now, and Suso can't make the squad... 3 months ago we'd be dire without them.

      As for the stadium, I have less important of a view/opinion of it than all of you lot do, but I hope that they can revamp Anfield and get close to 55-60..

      The thing with 75-80k is, it's a massive expenditure right out of the pockets, and regardless of what anyone thinks, that's all the owners have done is spend, and profit only from the deals they've made, they've not kept player proceeds like many other clubs or the cowboys before them, so even if their spending is measured and split apart, you can't begrudge them for not spending.. Another thing is, you'd have to know all 80K seats will be filled because it costs a club more money to operate a function with an empty seat, then it earns with the seat full.

      If they can secure some other massive deals this summer on top of the 2 I'm hearing are done over on this side of the puddle, then, for me and I think you'd agree, it should go to the squad first, and then start making the final steps on the stadium.

      If we had a more ready made squad that just needed 1-2 two players, I'm sure they'd be ready to commit to that project which will be 3-4-5 years, and maybe something they won't even enjoy when their time comes up, but in the meantime if they can spend on players prudently and bring success then everyone wins..

      To date, they've spent in excess of 500M on players, the club, some debt write offs and even absorbed a 27M (approx) faulty stadium plan loss on behalf of the cowboys.. how many people would do that? They never even said a word..

      As for the game, squad, BR and way things are going, I think after the Oldham match, these last 2 matches were a very strong indicator of the heart and fight of this team, and everyone's entitled to their opinion, but today was arguably the best performance of the year vs a team worth twice as much, and we were better by a distance.. That's something bittersweet, but to be proud of, and I think it shows signs of tangibly turning that corner for progress seen..

      Let's hope we follow it up vs WBA and Swans, which after today, I'd expect us to.. nothing less can be expected after they just slugged it out with the champs, and the Gooners on their soil..

    • jason...just read and I quote ..."Andy Carrol in his first match since November lead the West Ham front line superbly the whole match heading the only goal of the game in the 77th minute."
      Thoughts ?

    • What I'm saying Loki is that the rich clubs in this world wouldn't wouldn't sweat at spending £200m on players..

      Thats my point.. Messi for example went for over £100m + wages..

      What I was getting at in terms of "bragging rights" is there's 2 ways to look at it. Either buying the top players and show them off and the fans of that club then bragging on who they signed. The other way is to be clever and sign players for clever deals and they then turn out to be good.. case in point Torres & Saurez.. both their values shot up when with us.. Torres' value more or less doubled in price when we sold him.. Suarez's value too looks to have doubled since we aquired him..

      Yes i can see what the club is trying to do.. They're buying them young and hopefully will improve enough so their value doubles so if a big offer comes along they more than likely will be moved on.. Then the ball starts rolling again..

    • He does offer us another option.. Thing is BR doesn't see it that way otherwise he'd still be in the team. It's not as if we're awash with strikers is it?

    • Jason...yeah pretty much agree with all u say. I didnt know about the 27 mill on the faulty stadium plans via TOXIC TEXANS.
      Yeah hope we can follow these last two away biggies with some hard core fight against the as u say lessser opposition upcoming we need to get it up Swansea after the home humiliation in League Cup and revenge on WBA for the opening day debacle and you know I think we are going to BR needs to keep these boys motivated ...credit to Carra today for his performance too eh ?
      If u watching it enjoy Super Bowl Sunday !

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