Liverpool Message Board
This guy is an out- and out cheat. I'm aware that most players cheat but Suarez's incessant cheating is ridiculous.
How he can go down like that to con the referee like he has been shot is unbelievable.
Thank goodness justice was done when Foster saved the soft penalty awarded.
Actually Robert I was only talking about "unsavory" behavior. What Hazard did I think goes well beyond appealing for a penalty, talking back to a ref, or similar behavior some wish players would avoid.
I mean if we're going to nitpick Suarez, just wondering what similar misdemeanors by other players have had lengthy debates.
"(if you think dissent by clapping is any more objectionable than the other forms we see every week then I'll respectfully disagree with you"
I do, and referees seem to see it the same way as they penalise this but let off most of other forms of dissent. I also think that mouthing off at the referee is unsavoury and the various other hand gestures that are made are unsavoury. But there is something worse about the clapping - it is sarcastically belittling the referee and I think it's ugly and offensive. I wouldn't object to it being a red card offence. To me it's as bad as that spitting red card the other week.
"Condemning Suarez/Bale for diving and having a giggle about Neville doing it is..."
Actually I agree with the press here. Bale has developed a habit of hitting the deck and appealing for a penalty as if he had been tripped and I think he deserves taking to task for it until he stops doing it. I have no problem with repeat offenders being picked on like that. Neville's dive in the context was funny and seemingly out of character (despite an incident in the 2008 Carling Cup semi-final when Chelsea fans were [almost certainly wrongly] convinced he got Mikel sent off through play-acting) and he's probably sufficiently embarrassed by the whole thing not to try it again. So I think the different reactions are appropriate. Of course, the referee should penalise them both the same.
Maybe I have gone over the top and, if so, I apologise. I am also sorry if I have attributed words/meaning to you incorrectly.
I am really not defending Suarez. He's cheated in the past and will do so again in the future. It is the double standard that has worked me up so much.
We both know that what Suarez did against WBA is no different than the majority of footballers do week in/week out. He felt contact and hit the floor & he showed dissent against an official (if you think dissent by clapping is any more objectionable than the other forms we see every week then I'll respectfully disagree with you).
When you asked me if I found them unsavoury, I think I said "not particularly". Not because they were from Suarez, but because you see examples of the same routinely every week - I guess it's just become the norm. Is that right - no, I don't think so. But until you address all forms of cheating in the game, it seems wrong to highlight just ones coming from a certain individual/incident. If I got worked up by the two things that Suarez did against WBA, then I wouldn't be able to watch much football in the future be it Liverpool or not.
As I said, it is the double standard that gets me exercised. The media should either be offended/outraged by all examples of cheating or not in my opinion. Condemning Suarez/Bale for diving and having a giggle about Neville doing it is akin to condemning Barton for a reckless tackle but passing off the latest Scholes shocker with a chuckle - just wrong.
This is going over the top. I've called two things unsavoury. That's not a strong criticism. To me, it's simply saying the game would have been better without them. (Others on here have made stronger criticism.) You seem to think they are fine, even though in other contexts you seem to deplore all forms of cheating. Are you sure the specificity you are accusing me of isn't working in reverse with you?
"and yet players who you can see are telling the officials to "F*ck O**" are ok?"
Please show me where I have said that or anything like it.
"that's very upsetting"
Not quite my words. I'd rather defend what I said not other stuff I haven't. I contrasted the weakness of his legs which contributed to him going to ground with the strength of his appeal as if there was no doubt it was a foul. The ref bought it.
"I think your more offended by the person involved than you are by the what as actually happened"
I'm not offended. I didn't start this thread. I came into it when you seemed to be saying to another Liverpool fan that you didn't see anything unsavoury.
"the media and certain fans think anything involving Suarez must be "unsavoury". I disappointed but not surprised you can't see that"
Of course, that is well over the top. Actually, the reverse seems to be happening. That you are defending Suarez actions because it is Suarez where you wouldn't defend it if it was someone else. You really don't see sarcastically clapping the ref as unsavoury?
Well, you may be right on that. Suarez's antics attract attention because of his past. Also, this is the Liverpool board rather than the West Brom board.
Mind you, it's not just fans of other clubs who think his negative attributes are noteworthy.
What upsets you seems very specific. You find it very unsavoury that Suarez claps an official and yet players who you can see are telling the officials to "F*ck O**" are ok?
Suarez gets a shoulder in his back from a defender trying to put him off and goes to ground claiming a foul and that's very upsetting. The same thing happens week in week out in the middle of the park and that's ok?
Somehow Robert, I think your more offended by the person involved than you are by the what as actually happened. In the same way that an incident in which most professionals seem to have accepted was accidental, you thought that Suarez deliberately punched the ball in against Mansfield.
Believe me, if Suarez really had done anything wrong against WBA we wouldn't have heard the last of it by now - as in the Mansfield incident, the media and certain fans think anything involving Suarez must be "unsavoury". I disappointed but not surprised you can't see that.
I think the last time we discussed unsavoury behaviour by a Chelsea player was when you raised on the Liverpool board the behaviour of Eden Hazard. I repeatedly said he had overstepped the mark and recognised the red card as appropriate. There was greater discussion about it on the United board.
You can talk about that more if you like, but I suspect everything that can be said has already been said.
I haven't criticised any Liverpool player moaning at the referee. I criticised Suarez sarcastically clapping a referee's decision for which I said he was rightly booked. No Chelsea player did that on Saturday that I saw. I'm not sure Terry has ever done it. Cole did it once, that I remember, several years ago in a 4-4 draw against Spurs(?), for which the press went to town on him.
As it happens, Chelsea players don't do a great deal of whingeing at the ref these days. Generally rather less than their opponents do, that I've noticed. I think we generally get good points in the Fair Play Table for this.
Actually Robert I don't think you answered that, or at least I don't feel satisfactory.
You said you've commented on Chelsea players before but would be happy to discuss further if I'd like, or words to that effect.
I actually would like to discuss, and as I don't watch many Chelsea games I can't give you examples, which I why I ask you to provide the last time you discussed Chelsea in the context of unsavory behavior as I honestly don't recall.
So I'll just wait for your examples so we can begin the discussion you say you'd like to have.
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