Liverpool Message Board
I'm not ready to say it 100% the way it's slightly starting to appear, until after Swansea, and hopefully I'm wrong... BUT, Suarez, is starting to resemble that of 2011/12..
I think everyone here, Anfield and the Red half loves the guy for his individual brilliance and pension for the amazing, but last year for all of that genius he provided, was the most wasteful player on the team and in the prem with the amount of shots he took vs goals scored. (Yes he missed 9 games too).
That said, at times this year, and again maybe it's just a 2-3 game dip right now, he's looked a genuine world class central striker and the goal vs Newcastle stands out in my mind, but when he's not in that form, he misses chances wide ALOT, plays with his head down taking on too many people, and often misses a pass (easy ones) by being a bit too selfish looking for the spectacular, albeit with his heart and effort, but not necessarily best for the team..
SO, I've asked this question before, just out of curiosity, and I'm going to ask it again, but in a different way and also saying that NO, it's not necessarily what I want, but, with these factors to consider, could it be reasonable..
Far as I know, or from what I watch, Messi, Ronaldo and Neymar aside, I think the only 3 players around that we may see go for a 50-60M price tag these days, perhaps ever again are: Falcao, Cavani and Suarez..
Now the biggest point/arguing point against Suarez being sold, which again, I'm not saying I want, just playing devil's advocate with a good point of view for the club, was that we always sell our best players and then not buy ones good enough to replace them.. Biggest example ever, Torres - Carroll.. I don't have a crystal ball, but I could swear if that never happened, and having Suarez/Torres we'd be in a whole different boat..
But back to the point, let's just say Bayern really want him, and we can get 55M (Falcao is 48 release, Cavani is 58!!).. We could use all of that (and the owners will not keep it, never have), and buy the likes of Leandro Damaio for the 20m range, then have 35M left in addition to summer funds FSG will give, which could be as little as 15, perhaps as much as 30..
Just what if we could do this:
Suarez, Downing, Reina out.. (figure 70?) + new money..
And then, Damaio, Erickson (Ajax), Ince, Turan, a top class CB and a real destructive CDM..
Could you really be upset with that? Even if you slot in other names you like..
We could theoretically buy 4-5 top class players, in the age frame, while still having Sturridge only 23, Sterling, Coutinho, Shelvey, Henderson, Suso, Lucas ..
Again, I don't necessarily want it, and if Suarez goes on to score 30-35 goals, the answer is absolutely no, but if he's starting to revert back a little into some bad tendencies and that kind of money + additions are there, you kinda have to give it a second thought..
I know you were playing devils advocate but here's what I think ...
1) I don't think it will be up to us. I reckon Suarez is looking a more & more frustrated figure. If we finish 7/8th with no cups and he doesn't see any sign of improvement - I think he'll go.
2) I think you can forget attracting the likes of Cavani to Anfield for the foreseeable. Why would a professional with that talent choose to come to a club finishing mid-table in the PL? Selling our world-class talents only makes sense if you can replace them with better - that seems extremely unlikely to me.
3) Suarez does miss a lot of chances but at the moment he is carrying the goal threat of the team on his own. Last night he had zero support. Most of our supporting midfielders were 30 yards away from him. He created at least 2 out of those big 4 chances on his own (with the another the result of a great bit of movement and a pass from Gerrard).
In summary, the reality of what will happen is that if Suarez goes it will be of his own choosing and we won't replace him with a world class talent. At that point we'll be wishing we had someone getting into the positions to miss the chances that he did last night.
- 1 Reply to Paddy
Right, like I said it was just being Devil's Advocate, but like you pointed out, he is cutting a disgusted figure, which is in part down to the overall performance last night, but often he does that and it's sometimes due to his own style, which prior to his amazing start to this campaign, has been something we've all seen.
I personally don't think he'll ask for a move this summer without someone/something tempting him.. And, while maybe it was all a media rumor, or in fact smoke where there's fire, Pep Guardiola's agent is his own brother, who is Suarez' agent, so there's that, and the idea of going to Europe's 2nd best club at the moment (imo), is hard to turn down.
If someone comes in for him, or he does ask for a move, we get to ask for no less than 40M which is his release clause, and why I pointed out Falcaos 48M and Cavani's 58M.. So, IF it were to happen we can stand as firm as we did on Torres and get close to 50M.. Again, not that I want it, just saying, and as for Cavani, I've resigned to never getting him a while now, he's still my favorite footballer but he says he's not leaving Napoli and father said maybe Madrid one day (vomit).
But, all the names and replacements aside, let's say he is reverting back to the very wasteful player he has been in the past and can be, I was just emphasizing that it's strength of squad that make teams great, with 1-2 great players. While he may creat more chances than anyone we know, perhaps close to Messi, it's about what you score, not what you create. Just remember our home game last year vs Arsenal.. We kept Van Persie quiet as a mouse for the entire match, he never got a sniff, until he was delivered 2 great passes, and he took both chances, and we lost 2-1 in stoppage time..
There is no player attainable that can create like Suarez and again I agree we couldn't directly replace that, but since it's a conclusion we're losing Reina, probably selling Downing, and Carroll to go to.. with the "IF" on Suarez, that's alot of money combined and if we could add 5 very very good players who can all create and score, in addition to adding what we lack in midfield and defense, it's a compelling argument I struggle with.
At the moment, Sturridge and Gerrard aside, there's nobody within miles of mentioning, playing anywhere near Suarez talent or level, and I don't know we can get them or they're available, so it's becoming a dilemma already..
Agreed on all fronts I was just following yours and Rodgers thing on experience.
There's certainly good options available in goal.
phew. I'm glad I got at least one nod by suggesting Wanyama. Eitherway he immediately caught my eye and yes you're right that there's interest from elsewhere. He seems to have more physically than Essien. A bit of a real brute and yet composed.
hmm Ozil? ..................................................ok.
For me, Shawcross.. NO, not unless we're looking to break peoples' legs. I agree w/ Hobs, he has 0 technical ability and very slow.. He looks like an axe murderer.
We were strongly linked with Wanyama around January, but Celtic were never going to sell, so I can see him as a 15-20M player in the summer. Very good player..
As for Ozil oye.. ironically during that last world cup, I fell in love with the guy about neck and neck with Cavani for me, and Madrid scooped him for 13M!!! He's brilliant, but 30M at least.
For goalie I think Pepe's gone for sure.. I'd really have a good look at Mignolet. Begovic seems like he's on the move since they have Sorensen and bought Butland, but rumors have Utd looking, so we lose there, if true.
We need to get it right in the central midfield, and it is a bit crowded there, who knows if Jordan/Jonjo are fighting for their futures.. I'd have a strong look at Gonalons of Lyon, extremely technical, skilled and strong. Plus it baffles me we don't shop in France more, where Pardew has made a killing. Sissoko for whatever it was, is an absolute steal!
Another striker absolutely, and if Assaidi isn't going to hack it, and Downing presumably going, 2 proper attacking wingers who will start/compete with Sterling and Coutinho.. Turan please? He's been begging for years now and said to be out of Atletico in the summer.. Turan/Ince/Sinclair, all very feasible..
Isco is on the fast track to stardom in La Liga, we'd never afford him or lure over a Madrid/Barca/Chelsea/City inquiry..
Confirmed by club and player, Rodgers attempted for Balazs Dzsudzsak in January: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hSA77Ei6lVY
And, Lazio defender Mobido Diakite, 6'4 185 25 yo said he is likely to leave this summer for regular football and mentioned LFC:
Jason, tome it´s clear that Suarez is out of control.
If I were Rodgers, I´d lambast him privately and tell him to wise up, stop trying the spectacularly impossible and start playing sensibly. In short, he is being allowed to get away with murder week in week out and I bet it´s not just us supporters he´s frustrating!
Clearly Rodgers can´t control him. Hate to say it but he needs a Fergie to sort him out and turn him from profligate to effective.
I like where this thread is going.
Williams I like, but Shawcross too perhaps?????
I've no idea what's going on with Reina but there maybe work to do there. If it's an old war horse / head you want then Friedel is still going strong.
I thought you were never going Italian again Hobs? I also think Di Natali is fine player but I cant seeing ever leaving home now.
Another player that has caught my eye of late is Wanyama (spelling) of Celtic. I saw a little of the Juve game the other night and something stood out for me immediately. Calmness when on the ball perhaps.
I'd also have Isco pretty quick but we'd be in a long line for his services I think.
I think it's also clear that we need more up front.
Jason...in a word ...NO. Suarez is WORLD CLASS TALENT aside from him the only talent we still have is Stevie G . So no I dont want to see Suarez leave with the prospect of 3rd level talent coming aboard that may not work out. Sell Louis and bring in ....CAVANI !
THEN u would be talking other tha that forget about it lets hang on to what World Class talent we still have rathe than risk ending up with a team of Jo Allen's and Borinis !
I note no response from anyone to my posts after the debacle in Zenith where I bemoan the lack of our capacity to pass the ball in a FORWARD !!! direction ...perhaps Rogers should be forced to sit and watch replays of the game in Zenith over and over till the penny finally drops as to whichn direction the ball should be made to go in a la Zenith where every p^layer made every effort whenever in possession to propel that ball FORWARD !!! whilst his colleagues ran selflessly constantly off the ball to give him maximum options.
I know Ive stated that Id... though I have no faith in the guy... be patient enough is enough with this guy.... IF his former club come to Anfield and hand us our ass in a bag....it surely must be time to bin this clown and hand Jamie and Stevie G the reigns jointly and see if these two Scouse heros can instill what has been lacking since Rogers arrived ....confidence and team spirit. Rogers on that touchline always looks like The Most Miserable Man Alive.....you think this guy is capable of inspiring his charges when they see him on the touchline he makes Rafa with his clipboard look like Action Man personified !
He is in a bad run of form at the moment, there is no doubt of that. His finishing looked awful in the last 3-4 games but it is just a patch, that is all. I dont think he will leave this summer, I dont think anyone will stump up the money and he wont be allowed to leave for less then £30m. Obviously this post is born out of frustration from a shocking performance last night, I have to say, I watched Falcao and Cavani put in even worse individual displays too!
I have resided to losing Reina this summer to Barca (£8-12m?), Carroll to WHU (£15m?) plus we know we are losing Carragher for nothing and Coates surely will be off too. If Suarez were to leave we would be losing an amazing player but it wouldnt be a shock either, if it were Bayern then I would be asking for Gomez and Alaba!
Really don't like Shawcross personally, he is a fighter and can tackle but I don't think he has any technical ability and isnt especially quick, not for me mate.
Don't think we need a warhorse on goal, when it comes to vocality, Pepe is probably the best around, though if he gets the Barca chance, he has to go, of course he does. Vorm, Begovic, Cesar would all be good enough to fill the void for me, even Guzan, Foster etc all very good.
I doubt it would ever happen for Di Natalie, just a pipe dream really!
Wanyama is awesome but he is attracting interest from United, Barca, think we won't get near him, plus £25m is a lot. He looks another Essien, Tiote type.
I think Isco is going to Madrid as well, which reminds me, Ozil seems to be spending a lot of time on the Real bench, he will do! :)