Liverpool Message Board
Happy New Year
That's the question isn't it? How much was AVB involved in the purchases - and even before Baldnini, how much was Mr Levy involved. I assume that the whole point of someone like Baldnini is the purchasing to the 'club plan' and the 'stability' of the clubs squad - but I would also guess that all directors in such cases get the input from the current manager as to any prospective purchase (or sale).
It would seem a bit counter productive to me to have a sporting director buying offensive type players when the manager is of a work ethic/defensive mind - or vice versa (as is being seen with Mata at Chelsea)
Not much longer left in the transfer market - how much does Mr Levy trust Tim (or Baldnini) in the transfer market? Will Tim sell the people just bought, or will the squad not change (much) until Tim proves himself one way or the other - but there's a catch 22 - if the squad was built to AVBs 'spec', how can Tim prove his style with someone else's already misfiring squad? I would be surprised if we buy anyone at all this window - not even a replacement for Daffy - so will TNBNSD just have to make do?
So far the results have belied performance with both AVB and TNBNSD - but we are still in with a shout of the top 4. So still not bad for a team hit with a few injuries and not having as yet fired on all cylinders.
I think Levy is shrewder than that. He couldn't lose by appointing Sherwood. Obviously from what has happened, there was no 'plan' behind AVB's sacking - so the board/Levy already looked poor in way of planning (to me at least anyway!). Now, by appointing Sherwood, if it doesn't work - then what the heck - its Sherwood's lack of experience that's the problem. If it does work, how clever does Levy look by saving millions again by not appointing a 'name' - and with the added bonio that it looks like Spurs support the 'buy British' campaign.
Levy should have lost 'face' by not having a replacement for AVB in the first place, but that was deflected by Tim 'Nice BUT Not So Dim's appointment. Now, we're in a different 'phase' - a phase whereby AVB's botched exit will be superseded by TNBNSD (not quite as succint as AVB, but once you say it once or twice, it has a nice ring to it) success or failure.
Happy New Year to you.
I think he's been better than I thought he would in interviews - and I liked his post match views after the Utd game.
I just hope that the board give him the time they failed to give AVB or else no one will ever know what these managers are actually capable of and we'll just end up with a new manager being catapulted round the merry go round each year - like satellites using planetary gravity to accelerate out of the solar system - pulled in by the attraction of Spurs, and spat out faster than they can adjust their gas assisted chairs.
It's upon us again...another year, another manager and new hopes for a better year.
Best wishes to all here, and even those not here....
Merry Christmas and Happy New Year.....
He got more points in his first season than any other Spurs manager in the EPL era, and had the best win %age of any manager. Is that then bad?
Whether you or I like his style and where he got players to play does no affect what he actually did.
I did answer it Sfer. I said that I didn't have a crystal ball. Personally I don't think he'd do it. But again that is only my opinion - so for my 1 negative view, there may be 10,000 people who think he may have done it. BUT the only way of actually knowing is to let hm try. AND at the start, as with new players, I think it's only reasonable to allow an amount of time. For a manager, I think two seasons is a minimum (unless the manager makes such a rick that we're sitting 10 points adrift at the bottom of the table, with no way back).
AVB hadn't been a failure with us - he (as pointed out) achieved the highest number of points we had achieved - and had the best win ratio - so irrespective of my likes/dislikes and thoughts on whether he would have turned it around - he MAY have done it - and no one will now know because he's been sacked.
There are loads of people I don't like, but it doesn't mean that those people aren't any good at what they do.
I don't 'like' Rooney, but I think he's a good footballer. Daffy - I don't like that style of striker - but Daffy is very good at that style.
So my opinion of AVB and his style is neither here nor there on whether he could have got Spurs to 'achieve'. He may have personally bored me to death with his 'style', but I bet if we had got CL and done well by playing that 'style' , other supporters would have been happy. People like Mourinho - not sure about his 'style' either and I'm not overly keen on the way the man comes across - but I wouldn't dispute that he achieves by what and how he does what he does..
No contradiction - just divorcing my dislikes/likes from judging a person on what they've done/are capable of doing.
I say we're taking a step back because of 2 things:
1) I don't think I've ever seen a manager come in and not then change the squad. So we have spent £100m, and that spend may not suit whoever comes in. We won't get another Bale - so having £100m was like a Christmas present that we'll never have again. To then sack the manager before seeing what those players could do seems a bit premature.
2) Because of our track record. Name the 'successful' managers we've had in the 10 (?is it more or less?) that Levy has appointed. So using STAR - our track record doesn't actually fill me with confidence over the next manager. True, the next manager may lead us to the heights, but that hasn't been the case so far.
I posted this before, but Yahoo has a smart editor and decided not to publish it.
Although I dislike AVB and his 'style', he still has the best win percentage of virtually all the managers we've had. And irrespective of the two big losses, he has still got us to a reasonable points total - and achieved the highest in the club's history in the previous season. Could he have turned the 2nd half of the season and actually achieved 4th? Not sure, but giving any manager a season and a bit, IMO just isn't enough to see what they can do. Levy made the gamble when he sacked 'arry and appointed AVB - it does not say much for his and the board's decision making to have had so many managers anyway - and to then not stand by the latest decision that he made. He was under no pressure to sack 'arry.
Personally, I don't think AVB would have turned it around - but my crystal ball is no clearer than anyone else's - and to me the man should have at least been given the chance.
I was no great believer in him, but as it stands we could have achived 30+ points by mid-way and may, just may have got to 4th. Now, we'll have the new manager restructuring - and what then of £100m spent in the summer?
And if the rumours of Andy Capp or Maddonna or ... are true, I'm not sure where it will leave us anyway.
But should AVB bear all the blame? Surely, given the managers we've gone through in the past few years, questions have got to be asked of the board - as whether AVB was good bad or indifferent, the board have appointed (and sacked) a fair few mediocre managers.
If Baldninni then did make the purchases in the summer (with Levy) - then unless AVB specifically requested those players, surely the wisdom of the purchases also has to be questioned?
Bit of a balls up though - as just when I thought we were looking like a top 4 'consistent' team, we'll be taking another step back.
To a degree Fab - but a change in fortune for a Bale, Wilshire, Townsend can suddenly make all the difference - without wholesale changes. AVB was to sell Daws (maybe he should!) and up until the weekend we had a tight defence (on paper) - but is the defence as good as the stats imply (Walker - not sure, Vert at LB - not sure, Daws/Kaboul - not sure, Chicachita - unproven).
But you're right in that time changes everything - a couple of good wins, with a few goals from the strikers (whoever) and we may start to see the AVB 'style' (whatever that is) prove itself.
Still not convinced. The players who left either were on the edge of the squad anyway (Jenas, Bentley - T'Hudd had been out for a while, and Livermore hadn't really broken in) - Bale was the main loss. T'hudd and Livermore left squad holes, but didn't HAVE to be sold - ditto for moving on BAE.
IMHO it's a bit pointless selling on a midfield simply to have to replace it - if that is what you're saying. And as we've seen, it then makes it harder for the manager to #$%$ the new players - as HOW do they get the pitch time required to bed them in? So didn't AVB then create the problem (unless he's not responsible for buying and selling - and Baldnini is). Changing one or two at a time to fix a perceived problem seems a more sensible approach IMHO.
And isn't it a bit odd that the manager has played more of the players he already had than the new boys - Chadl valley? Capoue (ok was injured), Lamentable, Chicachita - the only one with good pitch time is Little paul - oh and a striker who plays on the shoulder like Daffy (and requires service that we're not providing). So wouldn't #$%$ing what he had and filling weak spots be the way?
We still have gaps at FB, striker (maybe not if Ade will now get game time) and maybe no 10.
Daws - c'mon, if you're talking about the Negredo? goal - I'm not sure any defender would have stopped that turn. And the 'too tight', 'not tight enough' is one of those commentary 'funnies' isn't it? As the pundits love to say, when pointing out a perceived 'error', that 'he was too tight/not tight enough there' (delete as appropriate) - so what is the 'right' amount of tightness - obviously the amount required to stop the 'error'. But that level of tightness may then be tighter or looser than an effective piece of defending - so its a very woolly/bland subjective comment isn't it?
Oh well. Not even half way through the season - by the end of the season all the new boys are regulars and we're banging in goals for fun and AVB will be proven
Personally, I think this is one of the reasons 'arry went. I'm not sure that the buys were all to do with AVB - BUT, AVB does not come across to me (obviously without any knowledge of his personality other than what appears on screen) as the sort to stand up to a policy he didn't agree with.
Which is right - 'arry's style of buying to fix a problem - although that did have an effect of then ageing the squad - or a blanket buy of 'available' 'talent'? I'm not sure.
All I see is that the purchasing policy this time created more problems than it fixed - and that is frustrating as there won't be many times in Spurs history where we get a windfall of £100m.
Oh well, they'll (AVB and the team) probably now go and prove me totally wrong by scoring a score against Tromso and then hitting Utd for six.
I'm not so sure the blame is the players. If you look at the 'stats' on the Citeh game, the stats show roughly what we've been doing all season - apart from leaking goals.
We have possession and we have 'attempts' but we (IMHO) don't create chances.
The defensive stat also then (IMHO) belies what has been happening, as I think that other teams seem to find it relatively easy to create chances against us - whether they've taken them in the past is another thing. But Citeh did. They have strikers who can - and createive players who can (good job Silva wasn't playing).
I saw a write up saying that Daws got caught out of position too much - I would agree, but that seemed to be driven by our two FBs pushing on and leaving huge gaps every time Citeh came forward.
So I'm not sure the players are to blame, when the wrtting has been on the wall. I'm not sure that AVB is either - as I can't believe any right minded manager would have bough a Daffy playalike in Soldado - when the whole ethos of AVB seems to have the midfield scoring rather than providing.
And I don't see that buying 5 midfielders solved any problem that we had. We now seem to have a bigger issue deciding who to play. So again, I'm not sure that was AVB. BUT AVB is the manager and if he had doubts as to the players coming in, then he should have been shouting at the top of his lungs.
So, we still seem light at FB, striker etc after having spent £100m. So surely that is not the players fault?
I still think though that AVB needs at least til the end of the season, but I doubt his initial attack on the fans and now his attack on the players is doing his credibility any good at all.
And I still don't feel confident about playing the top 4 teams - I'm not sure I even fancy the game against Southampton.
I may end up being the pessimistic one here - and the optimistic one, given that it only appears to be me - but yesterday's result was just waiting to happen IMHO.
I know this season we have been vaunted with having a mean defence - and the stats had backed that up - and conversely we had the team with the most attempts. So why be pessimistic? Mainly as from what I saw, we never really did anything with the ball. Townsend took over from Bale with a shoot on sight policy as did most of the three we played behind the striker, so Soldado had become as isolated as the other strikers we'd played for the past two seasons, and at the back, we're still lacking at both left and right back (Walker, ok going forward, but...).
So who's fault was yesterday? Was it the team as AVB implies? Or was the team a team waiting to lose because of AVB?
I'm also getting a bit frustrated with being told that it will take time to bed the players in. I'm lost by that, as half the players weren't/aren't even getting pitch time. Of the purchases from the summer, which have actually played on a regular basis. Soldado and Paulinho? Is that it?
I could follow the argument if the 7 players had come straight into the team and disrupted any 'style' we had developed - but that just doesn't seem to be the case.
But still, we're still there or there abouts - I just hope after AVB appearing to lay the blame on the team, he can then lift them for the Tromso and Utd games,
- Reply to Jlock Nov 15, 2013 08:52
But isn't that the reason that our strikers for the past couple of seasons have had a poor return? The providers no longer see it as their prime role to provide. Maybe again, AVB is happy with that and wants to then spread the goals across the front 4. Makes it hard then to blame Daffy or Soldado or Ade or Kane or whoever is then playing up front for not scoring though.
...back to counterfeit - when I was kid, I am almost certain you could buy club badges and append then to 'stuff'. I had a while long sleeved shirt with such a badge stitched on. I thought I looked the bees knees - especially with my Puma Tottenham boots. Couldn't play football for toffee though. Did make our school 3rd XI once and played Ardingly College.
Memories eh? I'm sure as I get older I make more of them up....
- Jlock by Jlock Nov 15, 2013 08:52 Flag
I see Spurs are 'doing' Fleet for using a Cockerel as the main part of their logo. I suppose that is semi understandable in a way, but it does seem a bit like a speed camera to me. Target the easy target. I wonder how many swaet shops are in operation in Asia where actual 'real' counterfeit products are being created (I won't say to deceive as from what I've seen of such counterfeits - Live Stress jeans for instance - they are more a tourist 'must have' - like a Spanish donkey). So is it sensible to go after a local club just to prove a point - and is '... If we do not take action to stop Fleet Spurs using our cockerel logo, it can undermine our ability to stop other unauthorised people who use our logo for commercial purposes, such as counterfeiters. ..." this really the case? Any court cases pending in Asia? - or are we too busy trying to create Asian support to risk taking a manufacturer there to court? Cynical? Moi?
Townsend. I like wingers. I like that style of play where a team stretches the opponent - opening gaps, scaring FBs - getting the ball into dangerous areas in the box. Acting as providers - as well as scoring the odd one or two. But I read from an article on Andros that he thinks scoring (and providing) more will make him indispensable. Only if that means he is playing 'well'. Just being a scorer or a provider isn't the be all and end all IMHO. Knowing what to do and when to do it to me identifies the good players from the average. Knowing what to do, when to do it, and having the ability to achieve it 90% of the time, separates the good from the great players. I think the legacy of Bale has a lot to do with this and maybe, just maybe the way AVB wants us to play. Just because we're lacking goals at the moment, cutting inside and having a dozen shots a game just isn't being a 'good' let alone great player. Bale was going the same way. I think I recall that he was having the most attempts in virtually every game - ....contd