Tottenham Hotspur Message Board
I've just looked at the Ar5e's squad.
There's not one English name in it.
I know the ruling is 3 years before the age of 21 at English or Welsh FA ..blah de blah de blah, but how the heck is this supposed to help ENGLISH youngsters to progress?????????????????? It helps the gifted ones from what ever country in stead.
Those wise old men in football admin at it again.
Ah ye will insist on the high road John!
I was pulling your leg about Hoddle i thought that was obvious.
Also was tweaking your ear on Jimmy yet i think there is a case to argue when talking about wether the guy would have faired as well in the modern game.
The game today is super fast. The players athletes. Would the likes of Tommy Smith have lasted in the Prem? Or would they have been shown up as second rate and unable to stand the pace? Who knows for sure? I find it hard to imagine some of these guys making at the top level today though myself.
I know the Yiddish folk were not fond of Graham and i never wrote otherwise. My point was that Spurs as a club were going backwards by hiring Graham whilst at the same time Arsenal were moving up a good few gears with Wenger.
I think you will find that Wenger did make comments about the Dutch tactics in the World Cup final and that he was not condoning those tactics and he expressed surprise that Holland chose to play that way.
Lastly i come to your view that Wengers brand of football is 'Joyless' and 'Sterile'.
I am hoping this is you typing with your tongue firmly in your cheek John as if this is truly your view on the wonderful game that Wenger produces i am quite honestly speechless and kinda feel sorry that you view it that way.
Arsenal fan or not i honestly believe that Wengers teams have at times produced the most scintillating and wonderful football i have ever had the joy to behold.
I honestly never thought football could be so beautiful myself.
That from a seventies kid who played defence and knew how to slide tackle bloody well indeed.
Here goes. I hate typing, but I've got to do it, so I'll try and keep this brief for us, Fab.
Firstly the genius from Harlow was a great player from the first day he played first team football for us and remained so right up to his last game! How on earth can you give Wenger the credit for Glenn Hoddle?? That is just fanaticism! And yes Hod is complimentary about Wenger, but that's the type of guy he is.
Now Jimmy Greaves. Is nothing sacred to you? OK he enjoyed a drink and a smoke, but he wouldn't have needed too much pace to sit Vermaleon (sorry,unsure of spelling,can't be arsed to check) on his butt, just a shimmy and a drop of the shoulder. I saw him wreck defences time after time, and that in the days when tackling was allowed! He would thrive in today's game, as would many other flare players of the time. They had to learn to deal with being slide-tackled, charged and caught from behind. Had to deal with players Like Peter Storey, Ron Harris, Norman Hunter and Tommy Smith, all players who would be regarded as thugs by Wenger, but in those days they were regarded as tough defenders and part of a very exciting and entertaining sport. Players like Fabregas and Ronaldo and their Ilk would have gone home crying after four or five games. Not so Jimmy or any other great players of the day. They were skilful enough to make them look silly on occasion. Now, we're expected to appreciate Wenger's sterile, joyless brand of football, and probably eat snails instead of roast beef as well. Well non, merci. Uneducated about football and Wenger's style? Yes, mate. Because football is a recreation for me, not a degree course, and beauty is in the eye of the beholder. Just out of interest, and I could well be wrong on this point, but I don't recall Wenger coming out and saying anything about the Dutch "thuggery" in the World Cup Final. Is that because RVP was one of those thugs? Or maybe because they're Dutch and not English? And tell me about George Graham....one of the loudest chants I've ever heard at the Lane is "We want Graham out!" He was out ot wreck a LONG, LONG tradition of playing football the way Spurs fans and neutrals adored. Wenger? Small change.
What we have had in recent seasons when we have proven we CAN compete 'OF' is an injury list to make the mind boggle.
And NO before you start the Spurs medical room has been nowhere near as full as consistently as the Arsenal one in recent years.
Frustrated opposition players finding they have to 'kick out' at the far superior Arsenal folk in a rather pathetic bid to compete.
Dont believe me?
Then why is it Alex Ferguson has commented along the very same lines on both the above points ( Injury blighted seasons and lesser teams kicking superior players).
Nothing at all wrong with my former post 'OF'.
Just a bitter pill to swallow i guess.
Fab - there are times when you have posted interesting and thoughtful posts on our board - this was not one of them. It is quite possible that this is the biggest load of old tot I have ever seen emanate from your sticky keyboard!
Yes you lot play nice pretty possession football while you feel like you are in command - but once you are on shaky ground you do start to throw your handbags like a bunch of petulant little tarts! And the fact remains that while you play nice pretty football, you haven't won anything in years - or for that matter improved at all in years (the proof being in the pudding). Why - because you do not have the je ne sais pas (if you will - thought you might appreciate a little Gallic touch) required to become a winner instead of a perpetual bridesmaid (excuse the mixed metaphor). i.e. you do not have that explosive "what just happened" that winning teams possess - that teams that make progress and improve possess.
And as far as Wenger goes - he's French - 'nuff said!
Ah tiss Sunday morning and i am pleased to have read your thoughts on Monsieur Wenger whilst i supp at my first coffee of the day.
I will tackle your first, with all due respect,un-educated remark 'why use one pass when 25 will do'.
Its all about possesion John, after all if the opposition cant get the ball, well......their fucked. Arsenal can break arguably quicker than any other team and have been able to do so for well over a decade now, a mere couple of passes and BANG!
Now that teams are so afraid of playing us many choose to pile the vast majority of their team in front of their box for the entire game, shivering with fright and soiling their undies. This is when the mighty men of Arsenal pass the ball around awaiting that golden opportunity to strike like a cobra with the cunning of a mensa registered fox.
To the un-trained eye it may seem like passing to nowhere John but it is the magicians hand at work awaiting the master stroke. One pass simply would not do at all.
Spurs manager Gerry Francis once famously commented after playing Arsenal (I use that term very loosely indeed in this case) that "We would have been OK ......if only we could have got the ball!"
True John there have indeed been many great and exciting footballers over the years with skills that would make your eyes wobble with excitement. I do believe Spurs even had such a player once by the name of Glenn Hoddle famously learning his trade and fine tuning his skills under Wenger. A player in whose regard their is no better than the Gallic wizard Wenger.
Another player of note that wore the Spurs shirt was Jimmy Greaves and any real English football fan will hold Jimmy close to their hearts no matter what club they support surely?
Thing is Old Jimmy was from a different time John, sure the stadiums were packed and sure it was magnificent football in those days but it was of a kind long dead. A kind where the substitutes smoked cigarettes and everyone got pissed every night.
It is a surprise these guys could actually run the length of the pitch when you hink about it!
Keep up with the boy wonder that is Walcott Jimmy?
Out run Vermalean Jimmy??
Get outa here!!!
Beat Almunia Jimmy????
Well.......OK i'll give you that one Jim.
Whilst Wenger was introducing the modern game to England Spurs were hiring the very manager whose tenure at Arsenal was memorably noted for 'boring' football John.
Lest not ye forget that eh?
Monsieur Wenger will never acknowledge an Arsenal players 'transgressions' John tiss true and i for one am glad of that.
Who wants a manager who is willing to knock his own players after all???
As for the constant 'Anti-English' references aimed by you at the great man what is there to say? He has stated that he would like nothing more than to see England win the World cup over and over and in years to come the fruitions of the Arsenal youth set up will start to show the many young English players now coming through at the most modern and forward thinking club of our time.
Lastly i will suggest that your attitude towards the great man is born from the politics of envy John and i suggest you take a long hard look at yourself in the mirror, take a deep breath and then go buy yourself an Arsenal shirt with 'Wenger 1' on the back and step forward into a bright new dawn.
I'm no connoisseur, as they say, but I know what I like. Arsenal may play these very intricate little passing patterns, all very technical, why use one pass when 25 will do, eh? If a bottle of wine taste nice, it's good wine. If it's a nice picture, it's good art! If Cordon Bleu food tastes foul, it's bad grub! And if it's end-to-end and full of incident, it's good, exciting football. I have watched such games in zis country for all my long-assed life. I have seen many great and exciting footballers and I can't be wrong, because the grounds were full in those days too. Go to the continent and find where they get regular five-figure gates in their second tier, let alone their third! Wenger has done all this for us? No. It's been going on forever. Yes he's been a fair manager for Arsenal in the past, and they were such a dull, boring side that they needed someone like him. But there's no denying, there's an underlying anti-Englishness about the man and if it wasn't for the money he's making here I've no doubt he'd be Frog-side in a flash. You and other Arsenal fans may enjoy your fine wines and your Monets and your Bistros and your boring game, but it doesn't float my P&O ferry. No, give me the traditional sweeping exhilirating football of yer Yids any time! It has been open season on Redknapp for a few days, so I thought I'd offer a few of my observations on the gooner's boss. He plays youngsters,and then uses their age as an excuse when they lose, he has players who put the boot in when they've been beaten, and then blames English football for doing this. He NEVER sees or acknowledges any transgressions by his players and rarely gives the opposition any credit. And this is pretty mild stuff, I think. He is a vain, arrogant and stubborn man.
Wenger has moved Arsenal forward and made the club able to compete at the highest level in Europe on relatively little finance.
He wouldn't have been able to do that if he was splashing money around trying to compete financially with United and Chelsea (now City too) on the minute amount of English talent available worthy of wearing the Arsenal shirt under Wenger.
Wenger buys CLASS players John and sod the nationality and his teams play WONDERFUL football. The likes of which this country had never witnessed before his arrival.
Did he change the English game??
He DECIMATED it!!!
Ferguson had to splash BIG time to keep up and all credit to him he kept up and moved his own game forward.
You think the likes of Merson and Dixon and Winterburn and Keown etc would have made it into a modern Wenger team without MAJOR improvement???
Dixon has even said he couldn't keep up with the new breed of ATHLETE that Wenger brung to the club.
The English game of yesteryear is gone and cannot compete with the new style of ...well.....English game as it has become too fast.
Arsenal can compete in the CL year after year as well as the Prem and finish CONSISTENTLY among the ELITE.
That is what Wenger has done to Arsenal.
The coming years will see PLENTY of English players coming through at Arsenal but they will be far more technically sound than those of yesteryear.
No cart horses at this club.
We have no need.
I know I waffle sometimes Fab, as do you. It just gets to me how Wenger has de-Anglicised a traditional English Football club and its fans. Just looking on the Arsenal board I read that the English way is to be brutal, to be hoofers and get called thugs all the time. 25 players and not one Englishman named! How can you identify with that? I know you have some good English youngsters coming through, but they are just fringe players, apart from Theo, and they will never be preferred to the likes of Clichy, Sagna etc., who are very average players. Look at his demonising of Paul Scholes...even the staunchest of ManU haters can't deny that he is up there with the best midfielders in the world and has been so for years. If his name had been Paolo Scholi or Jean-Paul le Scholes Wenger wouldn't have been talking about a "dark side" He has nothing but contempt for "zis country" as he calls it, even though he is making a bloody fortune here, and he's taking the Arsenal fans down that road with him. As I have said before, he's changed the way Arsenal play, but he's done nothing for English football even though Gooners claim he has changed that as well. English football was fine before he came here and will survive long after he has gone.
- View More Messages