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David Campese interview: ‘I’ve been cancelled for telling the truth’

David Campese
David Campese has had no qualms about speaking his mind since retirement - Getty Images/Ian Hitchcock

It is now 40 years since the 1984 Wallabies arrived at these shores and laid waste to all four home unions in consecutive Test victories. To this day, despite two World Cup triumphs in the interim, that grand slam remains Australia’s only home-nations clean sweep.

As Australia plundered their way to straight Test victories, including an added match against a star-studded Barbarians, several of their backs were playing in a flamboyant way which had never been seen before in the northern hemisphere.

One of them was the swashbuckling David Campese; the goose-stepping, hi-jinking wing from New South Wales known as ‘Campo’.

As well as on-field flamboyance, Campese has never been someone to cower in the shadows off it. Since his retirement from the sport in 1998, the 62-year-old has had no trouble with making his feelings known, no matter how explosive.

But his willingness to speak his mind has had a propensity to land him in hot water. From his home in the Gold Coast, Campese tells Telegraph Sport that he has been “cancelled, because I tell the truth”.

Campese laments the deterioration of Australian rugby – both internationally and domestically – as well as the over-reliance on rugby league concepts and the use of foreign coaches.

He finds it sad that the current Wallabies lack “respect and understanding” of what it means to wear the green and gold, and how few, if any, of the 1984 cohort are still involved in the game at the top level.

“The culture and the history of a club, country or business is very important,” Campese says. “If you don’t understand why you’re playing, then it doesn’t help.

“In 1984, we were so proud. I’m not saying the current Wallabies aren’t but it’s a different mindset, mate. It’s about money. They’re paid. It’s a job. That’s part of life – that’s good. But when you get paid and you play for a big country I think you should have more respect and understanding of why you’re there.

David Campese runs with the ball
Campese in action for Australia against Wales at Cardiff Arms Park in 1984 - Getty Images

“It’s not that they don’t care, they’re just playing for a different reason. It’s about money nowadays. Unfortunately, it’s a job, and when it’s a job you don’t have the same passion and enthusiasm. You just turn up and play. It doesn’t come from the heart.

“They’re playing for a team that won a grand slam and two World Cups – and they have no idea why they’re playing!

“When I started, aged 19, I had no idea what the hell I was doing, but I soon learnt about the history and the culture of the Wallabies.

“If you mentioned Greg Cornelsen to these guys, no one would know him. He’s the only Wallaby to have scored four tries against New Zealand at Eden Park, in 1978!

“No one’s got any idea! It’s about money. They’re getting 60k or whatever to play for the Wallabies – we got £20 a day. We played 18 games on the ‘84 tour!”

It is fair to say that Rugby Australia will not feature on Campese’s Christmas card list. It is the governing body whom Campese holds responsible for the dearth of Australian coaching talent, saying “after 2019, Michael Cheika should have been kept on to develop more coaches in a high-performance role.”

The 101-time-capped Wallaby believes that the entire board, with the Wallabies only four wins from nine this year and struggling to keep up with the other three codes of football Down Under, should resign.

‘Schmidt and Catt have no idea about Australian rugby’

“If we didn’t have the Lions or the World Cup in 2027 then there’d be no rugby union in Australia at all,” Campese says. “We’re in so much debt, but the board is still there! What do they say: a fish rots from the head? I could pick 10 people to replace them who would do a far better job.

“I’ve been cancelled so the only way I can get my message across is through my own podcast, Campo: Uncut & Uncensored. There’s not one journalist in Australia who speaks to me.

“I was kicked off Stan [Australian subscription streaming service] and out the paper so that’s why I do my podcasts. It’s because I tell the truth.

“And then there’s [head coach] Joe Schmidt. He has no idea about Australian rugby. He’s a New Zealander. He’s not interested in finding out who we are. We used to counter-attack or, at least, attack from the opposition 22. Now, we maul from the 22. That’s not Australian rugby.

“We used to attack! In Australia, we need to entertain to get people to watch. We have four ‘football’ codes out here. When you’re mauling the ball, it’s not good enough.

“I’m not saying he’s a bad coach but why do we have to have a New Zealand coach? We’re not New Zealanders. No one has ever coached a foreign team to a Rugby World Cup victory.

“Eddie Jones was an assistant coach with South Africa in 2007 but look around the world now and most sides have native coaches. We’ve got a Kiwi sevens coach, too – and no one even knew there was a job available.

“Mike Catt is coming up to coach the Waratahs. He has no idea about Australian rugby, either, he’s South African-English!

“Every country used to have its own unique way of playing. It’s just sad that we have to get people from other codes to coach us. That used to be what was unique about rugby; you had your own way of playing.”

David Campese breaks for Australia against New Zealand during the 1991 Rugby World Cup semi-final
Campese breaks for Australia against New Zealand during the 1991 Rugby World Cup semi-final at Lansdowne Road - Getty Images

But it is not all doom and gloom. Campese name-checks Antoine Dupont, Cheslin Kolbe and Levani Botia as players who are setting the world alight.

Closer to this weekend’s match against England at Twickenham, the former wing adds that he has “never seen Maro Itoje play so well” while also praising Marcus Smith and the Australian half-back pair of Tate McDermott and Ben Donaldson, neither of whom has managed to make the Wallabies jersey their own under Schmidt.

England have to keep Smith on for 80 minutes, mate,” Campese says. “You can’t take him off. Why would you take one of your best players off? Let him play 80 minutes. That’s what rugby used to be about!

“We have trouble with [Taniela] Tupou, who only ever plays 30 minutes of rugby. Let him play 80 minutes, for God’s sake.

“I have no idea about props but I know one thing: he gets injured in the first 10 minutes of a game. He only lasts 30 minutes max and he’s on a bloody lot of money.

‘Someone should tell Tupou to grow some balls’

“Someone should tell him to grow some balls. If you want to be someone, mate, this is your chance.

“I rate [fly-half] Donaldson, [scrum-half] McDermott, [back-rowers] Fraser McReight and Harry Wilson. The players are there but they don’t play the combinations together. McDermott is unpredictable and instinctive but he gives teams space.

“They don’t seem to put Donaldson and McDermott together. The rumour was that Schmidt told Donaldson that he was the best No 10 in Australia – but he doesn’t play him! Why? I don’t understand. If you’re going to label someone, pick them.

“Give them four or five Tests together. Don’t keep on changing it. You’ve had nine Tests this year and we’ve won four.”

Campese does not hold back when listing his pet hates in the modern game: People looking at the big screen every five seconds; kickers going past the mark when taking penalties; chasers offside at kick-offs; referees constantly looking for try-line offences; penalty advantages lasting too long, and over-refereeing the scrums. Phew!

Then, there are 50:22s, with Campese not afraid to rebel against the general positive feedback.

“That’s a rugby league law,” he says. “Why are we bringing league laws into our game? I don’t understand. I don’t like 50:22s. It’s great skill to execute but rugby was a good game. Why stuff the game around? We had great laws.”

It was under those great laws that we come full circle, with talk returning to Australia’s 1984 all-conquering side. Eighteen games on Saturday and Wednesday, training every day, matches against English clubs and divisional sides, but the success was not just on the field, with the Wallabies accidentally cleaning up at the bookmakers, too.

David Campese of the Wallabies in action during the match against the Barbarians in London in 1984
Campese takes on the Barbarians in London in 1984 - Getty Images

“It was my first time in Europe, the weather was freezing,” he says. “We played some unbelievable teams and rugby – some great stadiums. The people appreciated how we played.

“We had a bloody good team. If you have a look at some of the rugby back then, it’s still being played today.

“I was 21 and still pretty young. I was fortunate to have some really good players around me. That team could play now – if you rolled back the years – and still win.

“We had Alan Jones, a great coach, Alec Evans, the assistant, Dr Syd Sugerman, Chilla Wilson, the manager. Four people. How many do they have now? No wonder the players are bloody confused!

“The Scotland game was awesome, how we played. And that was the only Test I scored any tries in! The midweek games were amazing. That’s what rugby was about and they should bring that back.

“The problem these days is that you don’t see the players – you see them on TV but when they come overseas no one knows who they are. That’s what those tours were about; you got to play the Army, the North or Leicester.

“In Ireland, when we got to the stadium, [prop] Stan Pilecki disappeared into a cop car. We all asked where he was going but it was a big race day and some of the boys had had a tip. Stan left in the police car to stick a bet on, on behalf of the team, before the game. We won and the guy couldn’t pay us! He didn’t have enough money!”

‘Kids don’t watch rugby union in Australia’

Campese is still keen on coaching, but bemoans how the likes of Glen and Gary Ella and himself have little cut-through today.

“A lot of kids don’t watch rugby union in Australia because they’re not winning,” he says. “And they don’t know who the players are. At the top level, the Wallabies will know the league players but the league players won’t know the Wallabies. Kids don’t have favourite players. So, why are they playing? They need to be following their idols.

“Knowledge, culture and history needs to be put back into the kids. It’s scary. If you don’t have that then you don’t know what you’re doing.”

Love him or loathe him, Campese’s achievements with the Wallabies speak for themselves; so, too, his obsession with them returning to the very top of world rugby.