Luis Rubiales said in court on Tuesday that he had kissed many footballers in the past while celebrating and that he was “completely sure” he had asked Jenni Hermoso for consent before kissing her after Spain won the 2023 Women’s World Cup.

The former president of the Spanish Football Federation (RFEF) is on trial for alleged sexual assault and coercion, having kissed Spain player Hermoso as the winners’ medals were being presented following the 1-0 win over England in Sydney on August 20, 2023.

The prosecution alleges that Rubiales, 47, and three other RFEF employees — Vilda, the former Newcastle United forward and ex-Spain sporting director Albert Luque, and former marketing director Ruben Rivera — coerced Hermoso into publicly supporting Rubiales’ version that the kiss had been consensual. Rubiales, Luque, Rivera and Vilda deny any wrongdoing.

During Tuesday’s session at the Audiencia Nacional (Spanish high court) in San Fernando de Henares near Madrid, Rubiales was asked by prosecutor Marta Durantez if he often kissed friends or acquaintances, men or women, on the mouth.

“You don’t win a World Cup every day,” Rubiales replied. “It’s obvious that you can’t apply what normally happens, it was a completely extraordinary day, winning a World Cup. When I see my daughters, I don’t give them a little kiss, but I do at New Year or when they pass all their exams.”

As Durantez pressed the same line of questioning, Rubiales added: “It has happened to me in other similar circumstances, with team-mates, after scoring a goal. When we won at (Real Madrid’s Estadio) Bernabeu with Levante, which was a tremendous achievement, it happened and in other similar situations. Not every day, only in moments of extraordinary joy.”

Asked by Durantez if he would have kissed a male player in similar circumstances, Rubiales replied: “It depends on the player, if I have a friendship or not with them. In the women’s team, I had a very close friendship with four or five players, one of which was Jenni Hermoso. I’ve kissed many footballers. And if some of them had missed a penalty, and we had won a World Cup, it would have been a possibility. That didn’t happen with the men’s team. It’s hypothetical.”

During her testimony last week, Hermoso said in court that she had not heard Rubiales ask her anything when they embraced on the podium, and he had “grabbed my head” and kissed her. The former president’s version of the events in court on Tuesday was different.

“I told her to forget about the penalty, we are champions, thanks to you, we couldn’t have done it without you,” Rubiales said. “She squeezed me very tight and lifted me up. On the way down, I asked her if I could give her a little kiss, and she said OK. That’s what happened.”

In response to questions from Maria Jose Lopez, counsel for Spain’s players union (AFE), Rubiales denied that, as federation president, he had a position of authority over national team players.

“I’m the RFEF president, so I’m the boss of the federation staff,” he said. “But the players are not staff, they are just called up for squads. The coach is the players’ superior, they can pick the team they want.”

Early in his hour on the stand, Rubiales, who trained as a lawyer during his playing career, said he had quickly realised his behaviour after the game (which included grabbing his crotch in wild celebration while in the VIP area alongside Spain’s Queen Letizia) had been inappropriate.

“When I had a chance to stop and think, I (knew I had) made a mistake,” he said. “I behaved like a sportsperson celebrating. I should have kept cooler and acted in a more institutional manner.”

The prosecutor Durantez pointed out in response that Rubiales had called those who viewed the kiss on Hermoso as sexual abuse as “dickheads and dumbasses” when he spoke in a radio interview soon after the game.

“At that moment, I had just been told that (Spain’s goalscorer in the final) Olga Carmona’s father had died and she had not yet been told,” Rubiales replied in court. “I was very concerned with that problem and I reacted inappropriately and later apologised.”

Hermoso said last week in her testimony that on the flight back to Spain, Rubiales had pressured her to appear with him in a video during the plane’s stopover in Doha and say that she had no problem with the kiss.

“I told her it would be a good idea to say together what she had already said in her radio interview,” Rubiales said in court on Tuesday. “She told me no, that she had already talked about it, and that she just wanted to celebrate the World Cup. Seeing that she didn’t want to, I did the video on my own.”

Testifying last week, Hermoso’s team-mates Alexia Putellas and Misa Rodriguez said that on the plane back from Sydney, Hermoso had cried due to the pressure put on her to back up Rubiales’ version of events.

Asked on Tuesday in court if he had noticed Hermoso’s mood being down on the journey home, Rubiales replied: “She was happy, content, jumping for joy, like everyone else.”

Asked by Durantez whether he had at any moment been worried about how the whole thing had affected Hermoso, Rubiales said there had been no reason to as “it was not until a few days later that her version changed”.

In response to prosecutor Durantez, Rubiales said it had been Vilda’s idea to talk to Hermoso’s brother Rafael about getting his sister to record the joint video. Rubiales also denied having ordered Rivera or Luque to put any pressure on Hermoso to speak in his favour during the week after the tournament.

During questioning from his own counsel, Olga Tubau, Rubiales was asked about Vilda’s relationship with the team’s senior players. He recalled a video call “eight or nine months” before the World Cup, in which he said Putellas was one of the senior players who had asked him to fire the coach. When he denied that request, Rubiales said in his testimony that the players warned him “there would be consequences”.

The first witness called on Tuesday was David Murillo from ASOGRA (Association of Deaf People in Granada), who testified via interpreter Laura Murillo to give his view of a two-second TikTok video of what happened on the podium.

In response to questions from Rubiales’ lawyer Tubau, Murillo said he could read Rubiales’ lips saying “Can I give you a little kiss? (‘besito’)” and that he had no doubts about this.

During her questioning of Rubiales, Durantez said that Murillo’s testimony did not fit with Rubiales having previously told the prosecutors during the evidence-gathering phase of the trial that he had used the word “peck” not the words “little kiss”.

“I didn’t remember at the time, but it’s obvious I said ‘little kiss’,” Rubiales said in court. “The words have the same meaning.”

Murillo said in his testimony that the TikTok video had been sent to his organisation via Enric Ripoll. In response to questions from AFE counsel Lopez, Rubiales said that Ripoll had been his defence lawyer during the FIFA disciplinary proceedings which led to his ban from football.

The case continues, with Luque, Rivera and Vilda all still to appear in court.

Day one report: Hermoso tells court she received death threats after Rubiales kiss following World Cup final

Day two report: Spain coach Luis de la Fuente testifies at Luis Rubiales trial

Day three report: Jorge Vilda spoke of ‘consequences’ for Jenni Hermoso, claims her brother

Luque accused Hermoso of ‘jumping on the bandwagon to kill Rubiales’, messages show

Spain women’s coach Montse Tome did not know sexual violence protocol existed

This article originally appeared in The Athletic.

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