Demetrious Johnson gets real on why he retired, dream opponents, and who won the trade

Demetrious Johnson is truly one of a kind.

The all-time great achieved numerous difficult — and often unthinkable — feats in his legendary 30-fight career (25-4-1). However, the most impressive of them all was arguably his ability to remain a global pound-for-pound great and retire as a champion on top of the game.

In a candid and wide-ranging interview Wednesday on Uncrowned's "The Ariel Helwani Show," Johnson, 38, admitted to being semi-retired essentially every time he was asked about his next move over the past year. After transitioning into the grappling world and competing there, Johnson's love and desire to compete shifted away from MMA, but he took his time to commit to the decision of calling it quits.

One day, Johnson's wife Destiny told him how much she enjoyed having him around the house since his final fight, a unanimous decision nod over ONE Championship rival Adriano Moraes in May 2023.

That was all Johnson needed.

"I'm going to give myself a year just in case I miss it," Johnson reflected, explaining his retirement process. "I don't want to be one of those guys who's like, 'I'm done fighting. I'm not coming back,' then next thing you know, 'Hey guys, I'm coming back to fight.' I don't want to be one of those cases.

"Everybody has their own situation. I know [Jose] Aldo came back. I know Donald Cerrone's talked about him coming back, he wants to get 50 fights in the UFC. For me, I'm done. I don't miss it. I enjoy jiu-jitsu. That's feeding my competitive edge. It's keeping me healthy. It's a breath of fresh air because my professor is very good about teaching me and I'm trying to understand jiu-jitsu in the gi at a deeper level."

Not one to shy away from a camera, Johnson ideally wanted to fade out of the picture without a peep. Some may even say as quiet as a mouse. No big celebration, no spotlight, just a social media post at most.

"I'm out!" Johnson said with a laugh when describing how he would have officially retired.

Instead, there was a mid-show ceremony at ONE's Denver event last month. Words of appreciation were spoken and tears were shed.

"I didn't want to do the announcement in ONE Championship, but my wife and [ONE founder] Chatri [Sityodtong] convinced me and showed me it's not just about you," Johnson said. "It's also closing that chapter with your fans, and for myself. I didn't know I was going to get emotional, but when you're sitting there and the spotlight's on you, you see your wife, you see [coach] Matt [Hume], you see the kids, your family, it was a bunch of emotions of so many years of training in the gym. It all came to the conclusion of, I'm not fighting in mixed martial arts ever again.

"It was a good time. I'm very grateful that ONE Championship gave me the opportunity to do it on that amazing platform. It was a sold-out crowd in Denver, and that's how it worked out, man.

"I didn't want to take away from the athletes who were competing that night," he added. "I respect them so much that the night wasn't about me, the night was about them. Jon Haggerty taking on Superlek [Kiatmuu9], an amazing fight, and the whole card was just stacked. I didn't want to take away from their limelight."

As soon as Johnson's trilogy with Moraes for the ONE flyweight title ended, he knew that was likely where his journey would end in the cage. The score was settled with his Brazilian counterpart and any other challenger had already been disposed of.

Some outside names did catch Johnson's eye, though.

The record-holder for most UFC title defenses (11) has kept up with the MMA world on a global scale, breaking down any fight you can think of on his YouTube channel. During Johnson's retirement contemplation period, Aljamain Sterling ruled the bantamweight roost in the UFC. While some strings would have needed pulling to make that champion vs. champion super clash happen, it was of interest.

Then Johnson trained with Sterling in Las Vegas.

"That fight intrigued me," Johnson said. "I was like, 'Man, it would be nice to maybe fight him.' Man, [then] I grappled his ass — I'm glad I didn't fight him and get his Black ass on my back. I'll tell you what. That motherf***er's good.

"I knew for a year I didn't want to fight, I just wanted to make sure."

Outside of Sterling, there weren't many realistic pairings in the dream opponent category for Johnson.

Though in full video game fashion, noted gamer Johnson would've had it GOAT vs. GOAT if he could've.

"I think 'GSP' (Georges St-Pierre) even though he's bigger than me," Johnson said of his dream matchups. "I think he's also intelligent. Jon Jones, I would love to f***ing fight him. Woo. My clinch is way better than his, I'll put money on that.

"[Not openweight,] God no. I wish I was the same weight. No, no. He's too long, too quick, too cerebral. The only reason I say that is because they're so good and they're very intelligent and I'd be curious to see. For example, when I trained with 'Aljo' (Sterling) ... I'm like, 'Jesus, you are a big body.' Even though I fight at 135, I don't cut as much weight as him, but he's still a big body, you know? Like, goddamn. That fight would have been very, very hard because you're just bigger and your grappling IQ is so high.

"When I say 'GSP' would have been a great one, Jon Jones, it's because they're so intelligent and athletic and good that, what would happen if I was 205 pounds and me and Jon Jones were to fight? I have my skillset and he has his skillset. Or if Jon Jones was a mini version at 125, what would that look like? So, it's their brain that I want to fight. I don't really care about their attributes. I want to see what their brain would do [against] my pressure or constant changing and transitioning between the aspects of martial arts."

A high fight IQ was undeniably one of Johnson's strongest attributes throughout his 18-year career. Few fighters, if any, reached the degrees of well-roundedness as the Madisonville, Kentucky native. Hence why he's had the success he's had grappling, which led to some other possibilities in ONE Championship before his retirement.

In Johnson's third-to-last ONE appearance, he competed in a rare mixed rules bout against Muay Thai pound-for-pound great Rodtang Jitmuangnon. The bout intertwined Muay Thai and MMA rules, alternating by the round until Johnson came out on top with a second-round rear-naked choke.

The same concept wasn't quite proposed to Johnson recently, but there were talks of another crossover clash, this time against ONE grappling champion Mikey Musumeci.

That never materialized, though, and Johnson wasn't broken up about it. He was content where he was.

Even bigger — and better— offers outside of ONE that weren't contractually doable weren't enough to coax "Mighty Mouse" back into the game.

"I don't care to fight," Johnson said. "I truly find more enjoyment on talking to people, building the Mighty Cast, the YouTube channel, building the Mighty brand. We have season two dropping. I've got some big projects coming up down the line.

"My goal is, can I make more money from building the YouTube, Mighty merch, project coming out in 2025, than fighting? When I do that, that's f***ing — you made it. Conor [McGregor's] made more money from Proper No. Twelve and all the s*** he's got going on, [to the point] that he hasn't been fighting. And that's amazing, in my book. That's what every athlete should strive for. Can I make $5 million fighting? Can I make $20 million outside of the cage? That is my goal now."

Johnson has no regrets with how his career turned out and that's about all a professional cage fighter can ask for. That and their health, of course, which "Mighty Mouse" greatly values.

It's taken some time, but the broader audience has seemed to come around in appreciating and praising a legend of Johnson's caliber. He's not upset that it's now rather than the midst of his peak.

In the end, everyone won. And if you're asking about the famous first — and only — MMA trade that got him to ONE from the UFC for Ben Askren in 2019, that too includes a victory for each side of the coin.

"Money-wise, I think the UFC won because of how much more money they were able to generate, and from Dana White and those guys, I wasn't making them any money," Johnson said. "I think the sheer of the f***ing horse that ONE Championship got — I mean, if I wanted to today, I could still fight. I don't think Ben Askren could still fight. I could still fight if I truly wanted to. He can't, and you look at the fights I was able to produce, the knockouts, the buzz, it's clear they got the better athlete, the better fighter. When it comes down to the money aspect of it, they probably won. But what are you looking for?"