Eben Etzebeth interview: I am 5-3 up against Maro Itoje, but want to play with him one day

After a sighter to establish his range, Eben Etzebeth strikes.

The illustrious Springboks lock has been offered a trivia question: how many of his 129 caps have come against Maro Itoje?

“We’ve played each other... probably between eight and 10 times?” Etzebeth asks. The total number of meetings is actually nine, including one Challenge Cup encounter in 2022 when his Toulon team overcame Saracens.

In internationals exclusively, Etzebeth and Itoje have faced one another eight times; and on the biggest stages. Their catalogue of encounters includes a World Cup final in 2019, a World Cup semi-final four years later and an entire British and Irish Lions series.

The pause is shorter for the obvious follow-up. Does Etzebeth know the head-to-head tally across these Test matches? “I’ll tell you now,” he adds. “Probably 5-3?”

Bang on. Etzebeth’s lead stands at two, ahead of South Africa’s visit to Twickenham this weekend.

This is not a pot-stirring exercise, though it hints at Etzebeth’s competitive instincts. In fact, the subject of Itoje has already come up unprompted. Pondering his favourite adversaries during his career to date, Etzebeth pinpoints three.

“I’ll turn it around and tell you about guys that I’d like to play a game or two with,” he says. “Me and Brodie Retallick, we’ve played against each other for so many years and I’d like to play with him for a change just to see how we’d operate and how he thinks about the game.

“Tomás Lavanini, I’d like to see how he gets up for a game. It’s the same with Maro Itoje. Those are the three locks I’ve played a lot against in my career. I probably will still play against them a few more times, but I’d also like to be on the other side of things once, just to pick their brains a bit. I’ve got a lot of respect for them. Maybe the Barbarians can get us all together one day.”

Given that Retallick has retired from All Blacks duty and Etzebeth will not lock horns again with Lavanini of Argentina until 2025 at the earliest, it makes sense to push for more on Itoje.

“He’s good at disrupting breakdowns,” Etzebeth continues. “He obviously puts the nines under pressure quite a bit and is busy in the loose. I believe – I can’t say for sure – that he is a big player for his team. You only know that when you play with someone but I’m sure he is a leader for his teams.”

‘It’s a symbol of pride and I’ll miss it’

Etzebeth is a totemic individual in a special Springboks side. A record-breaker among record-breakers. Jerry Flannery, appointed as South Africa’s new defence coach in January, regards him as a steward of what is so special about the back-to-back world champions.

“For me it’s always been special; a sacred place from when I was a young boy looking up to the guys,” Etzebeth explains. “It felt mysterious – you didn’t know what was going on there. I guess now it’s a bit different and with social media, there is a lot more access.

“Back in the day, it wasn’t like that, and it was the sense that, as a South African rugby player, it was as high as you could get. It was the pinnacle. There’s nothing bigger or better for us. It’s a symbol of pride and I’ll miss it one day when it’s not there any more.”

The international calendar is such that Springboks affiliated to South African franchises, who now compete in the United Rugby Championship (URC) and European Professional Club Rugby (EPCR) competitions, can easily play in all 12 months of the year. Etzebeth does not mind this predicament, because he avoids the grind of a prolonged pre-season and maintains match fitness instead.

He did fly to Mauritius on the back of South Africa’s victory in the Rugby Championship, which they sealed by thrashing Argentina 48-7 on the day that Etzebeth overtook Victor Matfield as the most-capped Springbok. Were there any philosophical moments after achieving that? Not quite.

“There’s still plenty of rugby to be played this year,” says Etzebeth. “After my two weeks off, I was back at the Sharks. One day, probably when I’m done with my career, I’ll look back and think about the special days; winning a World Cup, my 100th game, the 128th, which everyone made so special for me.

“But hopefully there are a couple more to come, so I don’t want to think too much of sitting back at the moment. I’ll have time to reflect one day.”

‘We want the respect of our team-mates’

Scotland made life awkward at Murrayfield in South Africa’s first assignment of the autumn, but Etzebeth helped the Springboks prevail. Captaining a side with a seven-one bench, he was the only forward not to be taken off. That game encapsulated his unrelenting influence.

Etzebeth was whacked in a tackle from Ewan Ashman at one stage in the first half, yet continued to eke out hard yards throughout the match. He conceded a penalty following a bout of second-half handbags, after a set-to with both of Scotland’s props, but promptly stole the ensuing line-out when the hosts went to touch. Etzebeth’s contribution to a dominant scrum will not have been insignificant, either. And this is the crux.

Standing 6ft 8in, Etzebeth is an extraordinary athlete. He sprints at a fearful pace and has the bristling manner of an old-school enforcer, often in the thick of push-and-shove exchanges. All that said, Etzebeth evidently relishes the inconspicuous tasks as much, regardless of whether they garner wider appreciation. “Make the other guys look good” is a mantra of the Springboks pack.

“Siya [Kolisi] is a good example,” Etzebeth says of his long-time team-mate. “He does a lot of work that is not necessarily seen by the public. That [might be] running back from a kick and cleaning a breakdown [before], on the other edge, maybe Cheslin [Kolbe] scores a try.

“No one knows that Siya has secured that ball. He’s a guy who prides himself on that. He doesn’t care if people tell him how good he is, he just wants to have the respect of his team-mates. There’s a lot of guys in our team who are like that.”

Weeks past his 33rd birthday, Etzebeth is showing no indication that the end of his playing days is nigh. Even this far out, one can safely predict that he will be leading South Africa’s charge for a third World Cup in succession at an expanded tournament in 2027. He does not deny that it is on his radar.

“It doesn’t matter to me who we’re playing against, you must always be ready, you must always prepare well because you want to leave the jersey in a better place than when you got it – every match is special,” he says.

“Obviously, it will build up towards the World Cup, where there will be 24 teams. Of those 24, probably between eight and 10 will really believe they can win it. We’ll be one of those eight or 10 and we’ll give it our best shot.

“I don’t think we’ll think too much about back-to-back-to-back. We’ll just think about the next game; winning three or four pool games then it’s three in a row you must win – four [knockout] games in a row with the format change. When we get there, we’ll be motivated.”

As with the Itoje statistic, Etzebeth considers the question before delivering his robust line. The most decorated player in Springboks history is far from finished.