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'Nottingham Forest came along at the right time - I don't know what I would have done if not'
Viv Anderson, Garry Birtles and Tony Woodcock are gathered around a table at a hotel in Chilwell reflecting on their journeys to the top.
“I can speak of our group of players, they are all good guys,” Woodcock says of the Nottingham Forest Miracle Men. The legends who conquered Europe.
“Except for Burnsy,” Anderson chips in with a laugh. Birtles follows with a story about how Kenny Burns once made him smash his pint on the floor thanks to an incident with a cigar, while Woodcock jokes how he and Anderson used to pin Burns down and “give him a slap” before quickly darting for the door.
Even just a short time in their company offers a telling insight into the special dressing room camaraderie from those glory days under Brian Clough. Little has changed on that front. They are all still mates.
From light-hearted banter to debating the merits of modern academies, from discussing whether the greats of yore - “your Bests, your Charltons, your Denis Laws” - would have to adapt in today’s game to recalling (and wincing) over the old plastic pitches which would leave burn scars, this is less of an interview, more joining in an easy-flowing conversation between friends.
The trio are the subjects of a new film called Local Heroes. The story of Forest’s golden era with Clough at the helm and back-to-back European Cups in the trophy cabinet is well-known, but this documentary focuses on a different angle.
Set against the cultural and social backdrop of Britain in the 1970s, it tells the tale of how Nottingham-born Anderson, Birtles and Woodcock triumphed over adversity to reach the pinnacle of the game. There are also deeply personal and poignant moments as Woodcock uncovers a family secret and Birtles talks about the death of his wife Samantha from pancreatic cancer.
The idea for it came during lockdown amid the coronavirus pandemic. And as Manchester City prepare to try to add the Champions League to their silverware haul this evening, the film only serves to underline the uniqueness of the Reds’ success.
“If you win the European Cup in this day and age, you're lucky if there's three guys from one country, not three guys from one city winning the European Cup twice,” Woodcock explains. "We've got Long Eaton, Clifton and Eastwood. Three areas which are pretty well-known in Nottingham as fight-for-survival areas! There was the stories which come from that and how we were brought up in those areas.”
Birtles adds: "I don't think the three of us have ever forgotten where we came from, I think that's the beauty of it. We realise how good it was in our early years, growing up within that environment and being lucky enough that playing football was mainly one of the only things to do. We didn't have any mobile phones or tablets.
"You just did basic things. I can remember going golf-balling at the golf course, where you went crawling through trees trying to find golf balls, then selling them to the pro shop for 10p. You'd take bottles back to the off-licence and get 10p or threepence for them.
"The main part of your day, when you got the chance, was playing football on the pitch or on a park. Luckily enough maybe, there wasn't a lot more to do at that point.”
Anderson became the first black player to represent England in a full international after growing up in Clifton. Birtles, from Long Eaton, was a carpet fitter earning £12 a week after being turned down by Aston Villa, until he was picked up by Forest while playing for Long Eaton United. Woodcock grew up in the mining town of Eastwood and speaks in the film about how he knew from an early age he wanted to expand his horizons. All three had times when they didn’t think they’d make it in football.
"Loads of times. I became a silk screen printer,” says Anderson. "I'd been going to Manchester United every school holiday for a year. They said they didn't think I could quite make it at Man United.
"I went back to Nottingham my mam said I had to get a job, so I got a job as a silk screen printer for six weeks. And then Forest came along and asked if I'd play in their youth team. I played in the youth team, played another game after that and then they signed me. My job was going to be a silk screen printer for the next however many years.
"Me personally, I never thought about giving up. But it was just the right things at the right time. Forest came along at the right time. I don't know what I would have done if not, but I always desperately wanted to be a footballer.”
Birtles explains: "I was at Aston Villa on schoolboy forms, had a month's trial. Got turned down. Devastated. Had to come back and get a proper job.
"I went down the Labour Exchange in Beeston. There was a job as a floor layer, so I took it up. On £12 a week and thought my chance had gone.
“But then I started playing for Long Eaton United and Sunday football, which just lifted me massively and kept me going. And then you get a second chance, luckily.
"I never gave up. Nearly took up squash professionally. I thought about it, because I was quite good at squash. Luckily I didn't!”
That results in questions from the other two about whether squash players would make any money. Not to mention a few jokes about Birtles being signed by Forest to be Clough’s squash partner.
Woodcock continues: "I joined as an apprentice professional. After six or eight months, I signed as a professional.
“For me, it was always about the next stage. Playing for the youth team, can I get into the reserve team? In the corridors where the teams went up, you needed to jump from your team into the next one and then the next one. You play for the reserves, you've got to try to get into the first-team. And then it all starts there, are you going to make it or are you not going to make it?
"There's ups and downs. Are you good enough? Do I have to go somewhere else?
"You need to have that determination and fight. It doesn't matter what skills you've got - because you just might not fit in with that management or that club - you need to have the determination to fight through those knockbacks to get to where you want to get to. I think we've all done that.”
Character is a theme which crops up frequently, both in the film and in this interview. All three talk about having a determination to succeed - whatever it took - and they remain incredibly humble, despite their great success.
In the film, Woodcock disputes being deserving of the title “hero”. Do they really not see themselves in that light?
“Tony said that,” Anderson says in jest. He goes on to shake his head as he adds: “No, not at all.”
“It wasn’t about the money for us,” says Birtles. “It was about wanting to win things. Constantly wanting to win things.
“Yes, we got paid - even in those days - a better wage than a lot of people, which we are all grateful for, but it wasn’t about that. It was just about winning. You can still be humble, even though you are earning a fortune nowadays.”
Woodcock adds: “You’ve got to have the right character. No matter how much talent you’ve got, you’ve got to have the right character. Those two things have got to go together.
“It's never giving up, it's fighting for your goals, doing everything you can to get to where you want to get to. You've got to do all of that. Sometimes, even if you do all of those things, you might just not have the luck or the talent.
"You've got to then just carry on and see if you can get to where you want to get to. It's not easy. It doesn't come easy to you.”
Local Heroes is out now on Blu-ray, DVD & digital (including Amazon, Sky, Virgin & iTunes).
