New Zealand rugby CEO: We want an under-85kg World Cup

Mark Robinson would be within his rights to be flagging. As chief executive of New Zealand Rugby (NZR), there can be few in the sport who clock up as many air miles as him, with the former All Black now in his fifth year at the helm.

Robinson was at almost all of the All Blacks’ Rugby Championship fixtures – in London to watch the Black Ferns’ defeat to the Red Roses, in Dublin for World Rugby meetings, back to New Zealand, then to Japan for last Saturday’s comfortable victory over the Cherry Blossoms ahead of the November tour. But, as we sit in Kensington, with Robinson barely having been in England for 12 hours after a flight from Tokyo, there is not an ounce of fatigue. The 50-year-old, sipping green tea and trading a suit for an All Blacks training jersey, is fired up about the game’s big issues – both at home and globally.

For the latter, it’s 20-minute red cards, Nations Championship, and World Rugby’s upcoming elections. For the former, it’s Super Rugby, under-85kg rugby and the future of Eden Park.

It has been no secret that Robinson and NZR have been key drivers of the 20-minute red card. It will be trialled in this autumn’s internationals before, all being well, it is rolled out for a global trial next year. France are the only major union at time of writing who have come out fighting against, but Robinson believes it is a no-brainer.

‘The sport is modernising’

“It’s really heartening that all the Six Nations are aligned with this – apart from France,” he tells Telegraph Sport. “That’s great to see. Ireland are in favour it’s just, in their own way. They said that the previous iteration of [20-minute red cards] was not something that they necessarily agreed with. As I understand it, now that gratuitous, deliberate foul play is covered in this current iteration, they are comfortable with it.

“There are a whole range of subjective, often accidental incidents which were happening in games which were being penalised and costing teams a huge amount. We don’t think that’s fair for the fans or the players – and we think this balances the issues around it.The sentiment of the crowd is impacted on immediately. There’s a whole load of statistics flying around about what the likelihood of a win is but it is a significant disadvantage – especially if it happens early in the match. It’s clear it has a major impact on the game.

“We’ve been working at this for five, six years. We hope that, when people come to World Rugby council meetings where these things are discussed, that they understand the proposals; because France have shown that they do not, on several occasions. They do not understand what is being put up and I think people are seriously questioning their motives on this. At every turn, when we try to discuss this, they do not seem to understand what is trying to be achieved nor the measures which are in place. The sport is modernising. There is a great degree of collaboration between the vast majority of Six Nations and Sanzaar [southern-hemisphere] countries about this.”

Under-85kg competition is booming

Modernising the sport is one of Robinson’s non-negotiables. It is one of the reasons why NZR will be backing Brett Robinson in the upcoming World Rugby elections – “he is the strongest candidate to lead the next evolution of the game,” Robinson says. But also, closer to home, New Zealand are emerging from the darkness of Covid-19 into a period of growth.

Robinson says that the union’s finances are “relatively strong”; some of the viewership figures for Super Rugby’s derby games were among the highest ever; NZR has seen increases in participation numbers among men and teenage boys this season and have a record number of women and girls playing; and, perhaps, most eye-catchingly, New Zealand’s competition for male under-85kg players is booming.

With around 60 clubs involved, it has its final as a curtain-raiser to an All Blacks Test, with World Cup-winning coach Graham Henry an ambassador.

“The under-85kg has gone from strength to strength, with an increase in the number of teams,” Robinson says. “We would like to think that we can create a greater appetite in this area and maybe even have a mini World Cup competition from 2027, for all those who are interested. We think it could become a big vehicle for participation and interest in the States, too.

“We’ve got a bit of work to do to get there but the way the initial World Cup came about was because New Zealand and a few other countries thought it would be a great idea. They charged off and did it – maybe this could be something similar. We have to be innovative and provide more opportunities to connect with as many men, women, boys and girls as we can.”

‘Quay Park is a phenomenal proposal’

Stadiums are another potential avenue of innovation. New Zealand has never had a national stadium, but Eden Park has become its spiritual home, with the All Blacks unbeaten at the 60,000-seater Auckland venue since 1994 and the Black Ferns lifting the 2021 World Cup on the same turf. But nothing lasts forever – with talk of a new stadium, Quay Park, being built on the outskirts of downtown Auckland. Robinson is excited by the proposal for what could become “a jewel in the crown of the region, putting New Zealand’s premier stadium on a par with some of the great venues around the world”.

Robinson goes on: “If there is a conversation happening with Auckland Council about considering alternatives, then that conversation should happen – and rugby should be a part of it. When you look at where sport and entertainment is going internationally, we think that there should be a conversation; if there is to be an upgrade of Eden Park or a new stadium fit for purpose considered, then all the information needs to be out there.

“Quay Park is a phenomenal proposal. A world-class, rectangular stadium with a roof with incredible opportunities around hospitality, technology. It’s about what’s right for the region and for hirers such as NZR, the Blues, Auckland Rugby, the Warriors [league], football – all these other codes which are also looking to grow. All we are asking for is for that conservation to be had.”

Another area of north-south collaboration has been with the creation and rolling-out of the upcoming Nations Championship, which is due to begin in 2026. London is currently the front-runner to host the final of this competition but Qatar, and the Middle East in general, were once touted as options. For the inaugural competition Qatar has been ruled out, but Robinson believes that the door is not shut on their future involvement.

“Yeah [it is still an option]”, Robinson says. “There’s clearly still speculation around it. It’s obviously an option which is on the table and has been spoken about. But it’s not a decision that’s imminent.”

It is one of many conversations to which Robinson will be privy, across all corners of the globe, as NZR’s leader pushes for evolution in rugby’s present and future.